Frankly, I'm not looking to you as my Guru/Mentor. In fact, I'd rather do without your snide remarks. Somehow, I think I can survive without them. Know what I mean, pal?
ECT For Those who Think MAD to be False: What is the Gospel?
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Frankly, I'm not looking to you as my Guru/Mentor. In fact, I'd rather do without your snide remarks. Somehow, I think I can survive without them. Know what I mean, pal?
What church or denomination are you affiliated with?
As most can observe, Danoh and I are not on friendly terms. He's a "Card carrying Know-it-All" He's extremely Pretentious and has a bad attitude towards others. I have no interest in what he has to say, however, I kind of enjoy humoring him.
So says you - the undisputed king of snide remarks on TOL.
Give it a rest "pal."
Focus on ministering "grace unto the hearers" for a change.
SimpleMan77
New member
I am simply a Bible-believing Christian, who believes that the book of Acts was never intended to be closed out. The type of church they were should be our model and example.
The conversion accounts that were recorded there intentionally (by God's intent) to show that no matter the category you find yourself in, the obedience to the Gospel is the same. The Gospel is the work of Calvary, but our OBEDIENCE to the Gospel is essential. 1Thessalonians 1:8 states that wrath is reserved for all that don't OBEY the Gospel, and obedience ALWAYS involves action.
The actions of essentially every conversion recorded in Acts involved repenting and turning to God, getting baptized in water, and being filled with the Holy Spirit, and walking in the power of the Spirit. Those actions are OBEYING the death, burial and resurrection.
It is no different today.
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You speak in tongues then?
Read that again. I didn't say they weren't followers of Christ. But it is suspicious that they had not heard of the Holy Spirit, seeing as how the 12 met him as recorded way before this in Acts 2.
And they were baptized prior to this, they made that clear. And baptism in the name of the Lord was not the only exception, as the Holy Spirit was also excluded.
So, why had Apollos not yet heard of the Holy Spirit?
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
-1 Peter 3:21-22
SimpleMan77
New member
Every time that people in the book of Acts received the Holy Ghost, it is specifically stated they spoke in tongues. The only exception was the Samaritan conversion, and there was visible evidence there, just no recording of what it was. The other 3 accounts all include it, so it is logical to deduce that the visible evidence in Samaria was the same.
When the Gentiles first received the Holy Ghost, Peter stated that the only way he knew that the Gentiles had received the same gift the Jews had was that they heard them speaking in tongues.
If they had not spoken with tongues, Peter would have said "I can't deny that God is doing a work in them, but they did not receive what we did".
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"The Jews" are His sign people "require a sign" and "tongues are for a sign."
To - guess who?
Isaiah 8:18; 1 Cor. 1:22; 1 Cor. 14:21,22; Acts 10:45; Acts 11:17; Acts 15:8, and so on...
That will also tell you if, and or when...they ended...and why, and or...why not.
SimpleMan77
New member
I don't see anything here (or anywhere) about tongues ending. Do you have scripture for it?
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How did you conclude that was what I meant...or not?
What was the reasoning behind your conclusion?
Lay it out...
Also true.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Many people think they are baptized in/by/with the Holy Spirit when they first believe.
The evidence of the book of Acts is that they are mistaken.
LA
SimpleMan77
New member
Patrick Jane asked if I spake with tongues, to which I answered that all those who received the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts spoke with tongues at the moment of receiving the Spirit.
So the question I was answering was about tongues.
You quoted my answer, and made the statement that certain scriptures showed where "they ended". I understand the pronoun "they" to be referring back to "tongues". Or was "they" referring to "Jews" - are you saying the Jews ended?
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Hi and 1 Cor 13:8 answers it all !!
Verse 8 reads , Love never FALLS DOWN !!
The verb never FALLS DOWN is speaking to those saved b GRACE and is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE of never to EVER FALL DOWN !!
The next 3 verbs ONE , THEY SHALL FAIL and TWO , THEY SHALL CEASE and THIRD , IT SHALL VANISH are in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and means under Grace they STOPPED bjut will again begin again during the Great Tribulation !!
A correct translation of verse 8!!
dan p
SimpleMan77
New member
If tongues have ceased then knowledge has vanished. Neither has happened yet.
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Lol. Perhaps I was not as clear as I thought I had been.
If you will reread my post; I did not state whether I believe they ended or not.
For while I do hold that they ended; I was not asserting my belief one way or the other.
Rather, I was merely asking you to look at the issues those passages present.
Hi and I forgot to include KNOWLEDGE and it SHALL VANISH is as I wrote a verb in the FUTURE TENSE !!
You have good reading SKILLS !!
DAN P
In glory...will knowledge cease?
Obviously, you have not thought this issue out in greater detail.
The "knowing in part" is a reference to the gift of prophecy or telling forth of knowledge or information that some had and that thus allowed them...to know and or understand...that the Mystery of God's will then still being revealed in part...was indeed...of, or from...God.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
What is this "perfect" that is to come?
Well, what was he talking about when he then brought that up?
Within that - what does "perfect" mean?
What do we all learn about reading as children - that how and where words are used...reveals their intended sense...or meaning...
Let's go by that...
Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
As used there, the word "perfect" refers to that which is complete...it refers to that which is lacking...nothing.
It is both the opposite of...and...the result of...the resulting accumulation of that which is doled out in part, or piecemeal.
1 Thessalonians 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
He wants to add to that which is lacking in their understanding of The Faith; he wants to add that which might perfect it to where it is filled full with that which is lacking.
Note what Paul wrote in his last letter, just before the soon end of his life...
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
See that? The word "perfect" is once more used by him as referring to that which is "throughly furnished unto all."
That in which there is nothing lacking.
Following that, he once more relates his confidence that Timothy has all The "doctrine" - that he has all the "instruction in righteousness" because he has "All scripture" now...and as a result, will be able to carry on after Paul's soon departure from this world...
2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
If you compare 2 Timothy 3:16-17 with Romans 12; 1 Cor. 12-14; Ephesians 4; etc., "All Scripture" was now able to do what had previously only been possible through various gifted individuals back when each only had a measure of The Faith or Doctrine...
In other words, back when each had only had an "in part" measure of it all...
Just study that all out, at least.
React to it from this...three-fold, or three part...principle...in the following two passages...
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed...
SimpleMan77
New member
It's important to keep context in mind here. Paul starts by reminding them how great of things God has in store for those who follow Him, and how that the preaching of the cross is the preeminent thing. He reproves them for their carnality, reminding them that they Jesus, not himself, had died for them, and that they weren't baptized in the name of Paul, but of Jesus. He has to deal with their carnality because everything is about themselves.
They are in subgroups, following Peter, Apollos and himself. They are overly confident in the fact that they have all these spiritual gifts, yet sin is rampant (horrible fornication). Even in commemoration of the Lord's supper it was all about their own appetites, while others went hungry.
In the ensuing chapters he was going to correct them for the whole church speaking in tongues and prophesying at once, again for their own glory.
In the middle of all of it he brings it down to the bond of perfectness, the commandment that all others hinge on. Love. Charity.
The statement that "now we know in part, and prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect is come" is still in the context of charity and selflessness.
So what will be done away with is the "in part-ness". When we are perfected in love, our knowledge is made complete, because when we love correctly, the spirit is able to search all things, even the deep things of Christ.
When we are perfected in and through love, prophesy can be made complete - he goes on to teach how prophesy is for the edifying of the church (love), not lifting ourselves to a pedestal.
When love becomes perfected, we aren't speaking with tongues in a disorderly manner, but all is under the control of love. He states in the very next discourse "I thank God I speak with tongues more than all of you, but in church I'd rather speak 5 words to edict someone else than 10,000 words to edict myself.
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