Does Luke 19:44 disprove Preterism?

George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Musterion says that Luke 19:44KJV, Luke 19:44NIV disproves preterism. I wonder what this means?

I assume he means that, although the city was, for all intents and purposes, razed to the ground, not every last stone was cast down by the Romans. (perhaps he will clarify) I take Jesus' prediction to have been completely fulfilled in 70 A.D. give or take a few bricks. What do you think?

Here are other biblical examples of the literary device 'synecdoche' (a figure of speech in which a part is made to represent the whole or vice versa) that is used by Jesus in Luke 19:44 to describe the complete and final desolation of Jerusalem and the Temple as predicted by Daniel.

"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan," Matt 3:5KJV. Was the entire city emptied or is this a synecdoche?

"And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts." Matt 8:34KJV Was this, in fact, every last person or is this a synecdoche?

"And all the city was gathered together at the door." Mark 1:33KJV Either this was a very crowded door, or this is an example of a synecdoche.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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George Affleck said:
Musterion says that Luke 19:44KJV, Luke 19:44NIV disproves preterism. I wonder what this means?

I assume he means that, although the city was, for all intents and purposes, razed to the ground, not every last stone was cast down by the Romans. (perhaps he will clarify) I take Jesus' prediction to have been completely fulfilled in 70 A.D. give or take a few bricks. What do you think?

Here are other biblical examples of the literary device 'synecdoche' (a figure of speech in which a part is made to represent the whole or vice versa) that is used by Jesus in Luke 19:44 to describe the complete and final desolation of Jerusalem and the Temple as predicted by Daniel.

"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan," Matt 3:5KJV. Was the entire city emptied or is this a synecdoche?

"And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts." Matt 8:34KJV Was this, in fact, every last person or is this a synecdoche?

"And all the city was gathered together at the door." Mark 1:33KJV Either this was a very crowded door, or this is an example of a synecdoche.
Click to expand...

Yes, the whole city; everybody.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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George Affleck said:
Musterion says that Luke 19:44KJV, Luke 19:44NIV disproves preterism. I wonder what this means?
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Mysteryboy (aka Musterion) does indeed claim that Luke 19:44 disproves Preterism because Mysteryboy is a Darby Follower (Dispensationalist) and Luke 19:44 proves his Dispensationalism wrong.

Therefore, Mysteryboy has to claim that some stones were still standing after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

However, Luke 19:44 confirms Preterism, and the eyewitness of account of Josephus proves Mysteryboy wrong.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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tetelestai said:
Mysteryboy (aka Musterion) does indeed claim that Luke 19:44 disproves Preterism because Mysteryboy is a Darby Follower (Dispensationalist) and Luke 19:44 proves his Dispensationalism wrong.

Therefore, Mysteryboy has to claim that some stones were still standing after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

However, Luke 19:44 confirms Preterism, and the eyewitness of account of Josephus proves Mysteryboy wrong.
Click to expand...

Nope. That verse disproves your cult beliefs
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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Luke 19:44 makes it crystal clear that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD because that generation of Jews rejected the Messiah that was sent to them.

Christ Jesus called that generation a brood of vipers, an evil generation, and told them their father was Satan.

Christ Jesus also made it crystal clear that some of those Jews from that evil generation would still be alive when the destruction came in 70AD.

Christ Jesus also told His Disciples that some of them would not taste death before the destruction of Jerusalem took place.

Everything Christ Jesus prophesied, did in fact take place in 70AD

Dispensationalists hate these verses because it proves their false teachings wrong.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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Luke 19:44 was fulfilled.

Josephus makes it crystal clear that it was fulfilled.

"The Romans, though it was a terrible struggle to collect the timber, raised their platforms in twenty-one days, having as described before stripped the whole area in a circle round the town to a distance of ten miles. The countryside like the City was a pitiful sight; for where once there had been a lovely vista of woods and parks there was nothing but desert and stumps of trees. No one - not even a foreigner - who had seen the Old Judea and the glorious suburbs of the City, and now set eyes on her present desolation, could have helped sighing and groaning at so terrible a change; for every trace of beauty had been blotted out by war, and nobody who had known it in the past and came upon it suddenly would have recognized the place: when he was already there he would still have been looking for the City." - Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, p. 303
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
I don't think so.

When do you think the regeneration took place?
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I think it's possible. Those in the early first century were a generation of vipers, just as their fathers were, just as Cain was of the evil one. There are vipers today, as well.

Obviously, I believe The Regeneration is yet future.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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SaulToPaul said:
I think it's possible. Those in the early first century were a generation of vipers, just as their fathers were, just as Cain was of the evil one. There are vipers today, as well.
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(Matt 12:41 KJV) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

As we see above, Jesus makes it clear that the men of Nineveh were different than "this generation" that Jesus was referring to.

(Luke 11:31 KJV) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Again, a distinction between the queen of the South, and "this generation"
 
lifeisgood

lifeisgood

New member
tetelestai said:
(Matt 12:41 KJV) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

As we see above, Jesus makes it clear that the men of Nineveh were different than "this generation" that Jesus was referring to.

(Luke 11:31 KJV) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Again, a distinction between the queen of the South, and "this generation"
Click to expand...

"this generation" of Jesus' time rejected God and His representative.

Ninive and the queen of the south did not.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
tetelestai said:
(Matt 12:41 KJV) The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

As we see above, Jesus makes it clear that the men of Nineveh were different than "this generation" that Jesus was referring to.

(Luke 11:31 KJV) The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Again, a distinction between the queen of the South, and "this generation"
Click to expand...

Not sure, it depends how your read it.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

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lifeisgood said:
"this generation" of Jesus' time rejected God and His representative.
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Yes, that's my point.

STP is claiming "this generation" refers to all men from Cain till today, and the future until Jesus returns.

Every time "this generation" is used in the gospels, the phrase specifically refers to the generation of Jesus' contemporaries.

That causes a problem for Dispensationalists in Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13
 
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