Does God know the future?

intro2faith

intro2faith

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I've heard lots of different views on this subject, and I'd love to hear yours!
Here are some starting questions:

Does God know the future?

If He does, how FAR into the future?

There's plenty more, but those are some starters :D
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
intro2faith said:
I've heard lots of different views on this subject, and I'd love to hear yours!
Here are some starting questions:

Does God know the future?

If He does, how FAR into the future?

There's plenty more, but those are some starters
Click to expand...
God has an overall plan for history. I.e., God knows how He wants to handle Satan and evil forces etc.

Yet God doesn't want to micro-manage reality.

God wants us to have a will of our own and therefore God has soverignly chosen to delegate some power to us in the form of a true freewill. God does not want to coerce our love through direct ordination or through exhaustive foreknowledge.

Therefore . . .
God knows everything knowable that He chooses to know. The future actions of freewill agents is by definition unknowable.

Instead, God orchestrates His overall macro plan by working with our wills as opposed to working our wills for us.
 
intro2faith

intro2faith

New member
Knight,

You sound so sure of this! How do you know that's all true, and God doesn't just simply know everything?

I can understand where you're coming from, but doesn't ALL knowing mean ALL knowing?

And as for the free will issue, just because God knows what is going to happen doesn't mean that it's going to alter our decisions at all. For example, if I know that the apple you're about to eat has a worm in it, but I don't tell you, it's not going to alter your choice at all.
 
allsmiles

allsmiles

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Intro2faith,

Be careful when discussing how god sees our reality and how "he" experiences time. It's very easy for someone who claims their religion to have an exclusive right to the truth of god to speak as though they can see through his eyes. It's all inconclusive, none of it can be substantiated, christians speculate just as much as atheists do, it's all theoretical.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
intro2faith said:
Knight,

You sound so sure of this! How do you know that's all true, and God doesn't just simply know everything?
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If God knew the future exhaustively, every single prophecy, prediction and expectation He made would come to pass without fail. This is not the case.

I can understand where you're coming from, but doesn't ALL knowing mean ALL knowing?
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By definition the "unknowable" cannot be contained within the "knowable" therefore . . "all knowing" can only be understood to mean "all knowing of what is knowable".

And as for the free will issue, just because God knows what is going to happen doesn't mean that it's going to alter our decisions at all. For example, if I know that the apple you're about to eat has a worm in it, but I don't tell you, it's not going to alter your choice at all.
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Your example isn't analogous because you do not have exhastive perfect foreknowldge.

HYPOTHETICAL NUMBER ONE:
If God knows (perfectly) that in 1,000 years a child will be born and that child will be named Billy. God knows that in 1,010 years Billy (Billy is 10 years old) will pick up a apple and take a bite out of it.

In this hypothetical God know's all these facts perfectly and exhaustively, currently. God knows all of this 1,010 years in advance.

Tell me . . . does Billy have the freedom to not pick up the apple and take a bite out of it?
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
allsmiles said:
Intro2faith,

Be careful when discussing how god sees our reality and how "he" experiences time. It's very easy for someone who claims their religion to have an exclusive right to the truth of god to speak as though they can see through his eyes. It's all inconclusive, none of it can be substantiated, christians speculate just as much as atheists do, it's all theoretical.
Click to expand...
God left us His word. It's called the Bible you should check it out sometime.

And since God left us His word we don't have to speculate. We can read about God's character and understand Him in a clear and logical way.
 
intro2faith

intro2faith

New member
Knight said:
If God knew the future exhaustively, every single prophecy, prediction and expectation He made would come to pass without fail. This is not the case.
Click to expand...
Please explain why this is not the case.

Knight said:
By definition the "unknowable" cannot be contained within the "knowable" therefore . . "all knowing" can only be understood to mean "all knowing of what is knowable".
Click to expand...
God knows much more than what is knowable to man. What is not knowable to man is knowable to God.





Knight said:
Tell me . . . does Billy have the freedom to not pick up the apple and take a bite out of it?
Click to expand...

If God knew Billy was NOT going to take a bite out of the apple, then Billy wouldn't. If God knew Billy WAS going to take a bite out of the apple, then Billy would. It's Billy's choice. God just knows the ultimate choice that he is going to make. He doesn't persuade Billy to either take a bite, or not to take a bite.
 
allsmiles

allsmiles

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intro2faith said:
The Bible is Gods true word. Any other "holy book" is false.
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Allegedly my friend, allegedly. There's no way to substantiate this claim, any evidence you may supply is secondary at best and therefore wholly inconclusive.
 
intro2faith

intro2faith

New member
allsmiles said:
Allegedly my friend, allegedly. There's no way to substantiate this claim, any evidence you may supply is secondary at best and therefore wholly inconclusive.
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Aha! :idea: But that is where faith comes in! You will not get any proof unless you have faith in the one true God :) Believing and having faith is a risk, but it's one worth taking! Believe in the one true God, and you'll have a MUCH clearer understanding..
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
intro2faith said:
Please explain why this is not the case.
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Would you like me to give you an example?

God had Jonah tell Nineveh that in 40 days they would be overthrown. God wasn't lying! This was a very specific prediction, to the day! Yet Nineveh, repented and therefore God repented and did not do to Nineveh what He said He was going to do.

I can give you dozens of examples if you like but in reality one clear case is enough to prove the point.

God knows much more than what is knowable to man. What is not knowable to man is knowable to God.
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No disagreement there. :up:


If God knew Billy was NOT going to take a bite out of the apple, then Billy wouldn't. If God knew Billy WAS going to take a bite out of the apple, then Billy would. It's Billy's choice. God just knows the ultimate choice that he is going to make. He doesn't persuade Billy to either take a bite, or not to take a bite.
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LOL . . you trying to have your cake and eat it to!

Do you believe God has perfect exhaustive foreknowledge or not? If so, God knows exactly what Billy will do! Otherwise God doesn't have perfect exhaustive foreknowledge does He?

So, please try again and please be more faithful to the actual hypothetical . . .

HYPOTHETICAL NUMBER ONE:
If God knows (perfectly) that in 1,000 years a child will be born and that child will be named Billy. God knows that in 1,010 years Billy (Billy is 10 years old) will pick up a apple and take a bite out of it.

In this hypothetical God know's all these facts perfectly and exhaustively, currently. God knows all of this 1,010 years in advance.

Tell me . . . does Billy have the freedom to not pick up the apple and take a bite out of it?
 
allsmiles

allsmiles

New member
intro2faith said:
Aha! :idea: But that is where faith comes in! You will not get any proof unless you have faith in the one true God :) Believing and having faith is a risk, but it's one worth taking! Believe in the one true God, and you'll have a MUCH clearer understanding..
Click to expand...

This is where your mind stops and cannot go any further :chuckle:

My understanding is exceptionally clear, I'm well aware of the state of my soul and the nature of the over god. I'm familiar with christianity and have found that it has nothing more to offer me than I have already attained. I guess what I'm most interested in is how far you're willing to think outside of the box. You refer to faith and risk, yet I wonder if you're willing to risk a nice critical look at religions such as Mithraism and Zoroastrianism?
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
allsmiles said:
Allegedly my friend, allegedly. There's no way to substantiate this claim, any evidence you may supply is secondary at best and therefore wholly inconclusive.
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allsmiles please stay out of this thread. You are not on topic and are not adding anything to the discussion at hand. If you ignore my request I will ban you.

Deal?
 
allsmiles

allsmiles

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Knight said:
allsmiles please stay out of this thread. You are not on topic and are not adding anything to the discussion at hand. If you ignore my request I will ban you.

Deal?
Click to expand...

All you had to do was ask Knight, you don't need to threaten me.
 
intro2faith

intro2faith

New member
Knight,

I'd really like to hear your response to my response about Billy's apple :D
That was kind of a funny sentence.:chuckle:
 
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