Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Kind words, thank you sister. I noted when composing my response offline so late at night I had duplicated a couple of paragraphs in my explanation of the parable. They have been removed in my original post now.@Ask Mr. Religion,
I spent almost a year studying this parable and never really received a completely satisfactory understanding. Thanks to your exposition I have more complete understanding and I sincerely appreciate your explanation.
Thank you SO MUCH!
~Teryl
AMR
Yep!
You can TRY to be obedient, however, obedience and doing good works don't save you nor keep you saved. You are either saved or you're not. All the obedience and good works are useless unless you're in the Body of Christ and have the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit.
He or she is a cry baby
GT is a she.
You're incorrigible.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Leaving your usual anti-Calvinist canards aside, you have read it wrongly. Then again, you read much of Scripture in the same wayward manner. :AMR:
As in Matthew 21:34 (the same wording) the “slaves” metaphorically are the OT and NT prophets or any proper heralder of the Good News, this time (Matthew 22) summoning those invited (the Jewish people) to the wedding banquet. As in the previous parable (Matthew 21:34-36), the king sends two groups of slaves to give the invitations. This was common in the ancient world, since the elaborate preparations required meant that no definite date could be given at first. The first royal invitation informed them of the coming event (presupposed here), and the second tells them the exact date (the two of vv. 3-4). So they have already agreed to come in response to the summons by the King.
AMR
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Ask Mr. Religion
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[MENTION=696]theophilus[/MENTION]
The exit points of the streets probably refers not to the “street corners” or “crossings” but to the point where a street cuts through the city boundary and goes out into the open country.This makes sense in this parable, because the city has been burned to the ground, and the emissaries will find people only out on the country roads where the town ends. It would be no wonder that there would be persons there amidst the destruction all around more than happy to come to a banquet for their own selfish reasons.
AMR
He was part of the group found at the city exit points. Recall that the slaves sent out were instructed to gather anyone they could find, an idiom for "any person whosover". The mention of “whoever you find” (“any person whosoever”) is a natural reference to the mission beyond Israel, preparing the way from the restriction of the mission in Matthew 10:5-6; 15:24 to the “lost sheep of Israel” to the extension of the mission to all the world in Matthew 28:1 In other words, this portrays the mission to all the nations that begins with Jesus’ resurrection command. It does not begin after the destruction of Jerusalem, and to read chronology into “then” (Matthew 22:8) and see a contradiction with Matthew 28:19 are unnecessary. This is a parable detailing the guilt of the people, God’s judgment on them, and the worldwide mission, not a map of the timelines involved.
The exit points of the streets probably refers not to the “street corners” or “crossings” but to the point where a street cuts through the city boundary and goes out into the open country.This makes sense in this parable, because the city has been burned to the ground, and the emissaries will find people only out on the country roads where the town ends. It would be no wonder that there would be persons there amidst the destruction all around more than happy to come to a banquet for their own selfish reasons.
AMR
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Eagles Wings
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Been there myself a few times, and not saying that she is. Who cares anyway?He or she is a cry baby
Rosenritter
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@Ask Mr. Religion,
I spent almost a year studying this parable and never really received a completely satisfactory understanding. Thanks to your exposition I have more complete understanding and I sincerely appreciate your explanation.
Thank you SO MUCH!
~Teryl
AMR wrote "[FONT="]The ones who were invited to the king’s feast were not willing to come. That they were unable to will otherwise in no way removes from them their duty to come."
Considering he believes that God was the one doing the commanding, and it was God that chose not to give them the ability to will to obey, then yes, it does remove their duty. Unless you think God is a type of sick fellow that would cut the wings off of a bird and then command it to fly under pain of never ending torture if it fails.
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Rosenritter
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I believe that we do not receive eternal life until we are changed from mortal to immortal, when we put on immortality, when then it has come to pass the saying "Death where is thy victory? and where is thy sting?"
Your question is confusing (purposely leaving vague) the distinction between having the destiny or potential of eternal life, and the actual realization of the receiving of that eternal life. Adjust your question to distinguish between the two and you'll have your answer post haste. Plus I'll grant you the due respect for resorting to an honest argument.
Rosenritter
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Credit to God's Truth for pointing this out in the post just following. Thought I'd put this out there for you to read Grosnick. It's all over the scripture but since we're on the topic of this parable...
Matthew 22:9-14 KJV
(9) Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
(10) So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
(11) And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
(12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
(13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(14) For many are called, but few are chosen.
Jesus said in more than a few places that one can lose salvation. That parable above is just one of the examples that I didn't post already. Do you recall the parable of the ten virgins, five foolish and five wise? Or maybe the parable of the servant who was forgiven much but would not forgive his fellow servant who owed little? Those lost their salvation, or their forgiveness was revoked.
Nang
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You will find in Scripture that the command always precedes any self-inflicted wing-clipping.
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Rosenritter
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You answered your own question above. The promise of Eternal Life in heaven is received. When eternal life itself has not yet been received, it can still be lost.
Rosenritter
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How old was Adam when he was judged? A couple days? a few weeks old perhaps? That's a "babe" by our standard. Yet God held him responsible for his choices. When God says that all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ, have enough faith in his ability to trust that he knows how to do that. Spend less time trying to explain it away by limiting God to your own scope of power.
Nang
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The portion of Scripture quoted above, nor the others you refer to, have anything to do with a soul losing salvation. They all describe souls who have never received the saving grace of God to begin with. I John 2:19
Rosenritter
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James 2:17-20 KJV
(17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
(18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
(19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Really, Grosnick? Is it not written?
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Their inability to will was their own fault, God did not affect their will- He rather just left them out according to what His providence ordained.
You all don't seem to want to understand Calvinism, rather you want to beat the same old straw man- a million times it has been explained, and a million times you all have come back with the same exact argument you are stating now.
Rosenritter
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That is correct. But you will find in Calvinism that the wing-clipping is divine and precedes the receipt of the command.
Rosenritter
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Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Setting aside your contention, Paul warns that one can be renewed unto repentance, but then fall away. If only Augustine and Calvin were there to instruct Paul, and correct him in his error!