Robert Pate's Yet Another "Calvinists believe..." Thread
Robert Pate's Yet Another "Calvinists believe..." Thread
Robert,
I have no doubt that the inspired writer of Ecc. 1:9 had you in mind.
Here we have yet another of your vitriolic "
Calvinists believe..." threads related to the atonement of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should spend more time actually digesting the responses you have been given time and again rather that resurrecting the same well-worn topics in which you have been thoroughly answered. Unfortunately, each and every time when you have been answered, you wave off with scoffing, "
Hogwash!",
etc., then just move onward, never taking the time to stand still to defend cross-examination of your assertions. The result is yet another thread started by you as if nothing has come before.
Clearly, not all are saved, hence some
condition must exist for there being saved. That condition is
faith, the
instrument by which all are saved. Our Lord's death was for all those that believe upon Him and His active and passive obedience unto death and resurrection. The
believing ones. The atonement was
actual, not
potential. The atonement was not your
hypothetical univeralism:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Gospel-Works&p=5068917&viewfull=1#post5068917
Note: the link to the thread above is proof enough of my opening complaint about your redundancy, Robert. You start a thread like this one when the topic has been enjoined elsewhere, yet you abandon the discussion with the usual wave-offs.
Our Lord plainly states, that His blood is poured out for “
many,” not for “
all” (Matt. 26:28).
Many does not mean
all. Please reconcile this plain teaching with your odd claim that Our Lord died (shed His blood) for
all, especially when Our Lord pointedly contradicts your assertions.
What follows is explanatory of the verses you merely cite and declare victory without any attempt to explain the pretext of your proof texting.
"And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.
And not for ours only is added by John for the sake of amplifying, in order that the faithful might be assured that the expiation made by Jesus Christ, extends to all who by faith embrace the gospel.
Here the question is asked,
How have the sins of the whole world been expiated?
I will ignore the notions of fanatics, who under this pretense imply the extension of salvation to
all the reprobate, and
therefore to Satan himself. Such a monstrous thing deserves no refutation.
No they who seek to avoid such absurdities have said that Jesus Christ suffered
sufficiently for the whole world, but
efficiently only for the elect. This solution has commonly prevailed. While I admit that what has been said is true, I deny that it is suitable to this passage; for the design of John was no other than to make this benefit common to the
whole Church. Then under the word
all or
whole, John does not include the reprobate, but designates those
who should believe as well
as those who were then scattered through various parts of the world. Thus it is really made evident, the grace of Christ, when it is declared to be the only true salvation of the world.
"But we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, THAT HE BY THE GRACE OF GOD SHOULD TASTE DEATH FOR EVERYONE" Hebrews 2:9.
Now my question is this. Did Jesus and God make some sort of a deal with the devil? Calvinist believe that their sins were atoned for because they believe that they are the elect, chosen from the foundation of the world, even though there is no scripture that says that. What the scripture does say is that God has chosen all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:3-6.
But we see Jesus, etc. Given the meaning of the words, "
a little" is ambiguous, the author of Hebrews looks to the thing itself, as exhibited in the person of Jesus Christ, rather then to the exact meaning of the words, and the author presents to our meditation the glory after the resurrection, which David extends to all the gifts by which man is adorned by God's bounty. There is no doubt but that the expression is capable of being understood as "
little" in degree, or as "
little" in time; but in the Psalm 8:5 the former is evidently the meaning, and there is no reason for a different meaning here. Christ, in becoming man, assumed a nature
inferior to that of angels, a human nature. The inferiority of nature is admitted, but that inferiority is as it were compensated by a
superiority of honor and glory.
For the suffering of death, etc. It is the same as though it was said that Jesus Christ, having passed through death, was exalted into the glory which He has obtained, according to what Paul teaches us in Php 2:8-10; not that Christ obtained anything for Himself individually.
That he by the grace of God, etc. Here the author of Hebrews refers to the
cause and the
fruit of Christ's death, avoiding the risk of thinking that Our Lord should be thought to detract anything from His dignity. For when we hear that so much good has been obtained for us, there is no place left for contempt, for admiration of the divine goodness fills the whole mind.
By saying
for every man (everyone), the author means
not only that Jesus Christ might be ample
to others, as in the example of a physician tasting first a bitter concoction, that the patient might not refuse to drink it; but the author means that
Christ died for us, and that by taking upon Him what was due
to us, He redeemed us from the curse of death. This was done through the
grace of God, for the
cause of redemption was the infinite love of God
towards us, through which it was that God spared not even his own Son.
Finally, no one should be holding to some
ransom paid to the devil theory of the atonement, so I have ignored your nonsensical deal with the devil comments.
AMR
