PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
And yet... no mention of Rhema. There is no Logos without Rhema.
Davar - Memra - Logos
- Thread starter intojoy
- Start date
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
None of the posts on that thread come close to the lexicography.
Rhema and Logos are inseparable, but distinct. Understanding that (along with hypostasis and prosopon) is the foundational key to knowing the ontological Gospel of Paul.
This is why the ontological Gospel was lost to methodology by the early second century, and ontology has never been truly recovered. The Church-at-large is in infancy declining to full apostasy, unknowingly mistaking elpis (hope/trust) for pistis (faith).
I just thought that the thread might be of interest.
I'm familiar with all the words you mentioned.
However, I don't share your conclusions.
It appears to me that you are inclined to a Platonic, Origenistic, Augustinian, allegorical interpretation of the Scriptures.
It just doesn't work for me.
i mean, how many different ways does a person need to HEAR - John 1:1,2. how many translations, concordances and languages does it take ? it's never enough for doubters. instead of Spritual Understanding, keep doubting, disputing and askin questions. where is The Fruit ?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
I'm non-Platonic, non-Origenistic, anti-Augustinian, and I don't embrace allegoricism; so I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion.
Plato and the other Sophists could only dream of accessing the ontological Gospel, though they all tried. They, nor any others, could ever find the "Philospher's Stone" when it was right there in Paul's Gospel all along.
You'd actually have to reject scripture to NOT utilize the terms I mentioned. Jesus is the express image of God's hypostasis (there aren't three, and a hypostasis isn't a "person"; faith is a hypostasis). And Paul forgave in the prosopon of Christ.
Mary proclaimed, "Be it unto me according to thy rhema. The sword of the Spirit is the Rhema. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Rhema.
Modern denominationalism and the Word of Faith movement have destroyed and displaced the true meaning. But one can't just ignore the terms, for they are the very foundation of the Gospel that has been turned to methodology for around 1900 years.
Hope/trust (elpis) is not faith (pistis); and that's where the Church is stuck, ignorantly thinking the former is the latter.
It's all because of low-context language and culture, utilized as the devices of Satan to undermine the actual Gospel. The true Gospel hasn't been preached and taught since very shortly after Paul's life. It's declined to methodology instead of ontology.
It's all because of low-context language and culture, utilized as the devices of Satan to undermine the actual Gospel. The true Gospel hasn't been preached and taught since very shortly after Paul's life. It's declined to methodology instead of ontology.
So.....no one has been saved from just after Paul's departure until you came on the scene to enlighten us all?
Is that what you are saying?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Incorrect.
"For we are saved by hope (elpis); but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."
Romans 8:24-25
Trust/hope (elpis) saves us. It's the potentiality, whereas faith is a hypostasis, and is an actuality... now. Hope is that at physical death, we trust that we'll have the promised everlasting life in Christ.
Elpis is earnest anticipation and expectation with desire, because of promises made. It's not the wishful connotation that is the preeminent English conceptual understanding like "I hope I win the lottery."
And pistis (faith) is the hypostasis (substance) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen... Now. Faith is walking in and by the Spirit, not the flesh. That's not about having dual natures, which is putting new wine in old wineskins.
Most Biblical "literalists" are actually Biblical Naturalists, presuming "literal" means physical and natural, when spiritual is even more literal than natural.
One must literally put on Christ by faith. That's not figurative, as most Biblical "literalists" have made it.
Paul forgave in the prosopon of Christ. God accepts no man's prosopon. If one has not put on the prosopon of Christ as the fulfillment of the Robe Exchange (1Sam 18:1-4), then one is living merely in elpis. It's salvific, but isn't walking by faith.
Are you crucified with Christ? No, I mean literally; not figuratively or allegorically. You see.... most literalists..... aren't. They're allegoricists because they don't treat the spiritual as literal because its not natural and tangible.
My prosopon is literally crucified with Christ. Reckoned dead by faith. I've been resurrected (my hypostasis - inner man) into HIS prosopon. Now. I don't have to walk merely by hope.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me;; and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me."
Galatians 2:20
Elpis is not pistis. The Church-at-large is preaching, teaching, and living according to elpis. They're not living according to Paul's ontological Gospel of BEING to DO. They're DOING to BE.
True faith is to rest in Christ and cease from one's own works. That's not happening, because methodology (doing) has replaced ontology (being) since the early apologetics era in the second century, leading into the Romanization of the Church.
And it's never been restored and regained, because elpis "looks" so much like "faith" to those who can't, don't, or won't see the spiritual truth.
By hope, most are putting the new wine of the Holy Spirit into the old wineskins of their own prosopon, rather than hearing God's Rhema for faith to come.
He HATH translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son. I've been translated, yet I'm anchored here to this physical life until physical death manifests. I'm awaiting the redemption of my body in the final resurrection. In the meantime, I'm working out my salvation from my inner man (hypostasis) to my outer man (prosopon).
But I live by pistis, not just elpis. Pistis is a hypostasis and worketh by agape, which abounds in epignosis knowledge, which is a synonym for faith. Those words are VERY important, regardless what English speakers think. It's the difference between hope/trust and faith, presuming the former is the latter.
(And not understanding the ontological Gospel is where all manner of false and divisive doctrines comes from, especially unnecessary Dispensational Eschatology. But when someone HAS elpis but doesn't have pistis from hearing God's Rhema, it's nearly impossible to convince them of anything; because elpis IS trust and they presume there's nothing else.)
The Church is trapped in NeoNomos (new law methodology) and NeoJudaism + Jesus. It's hope, which doth now save them; but it's not faith. The very lexicography for truth (aletheia) illustrates everything I've said.
But few recognize the lexical content in my conversation, preferring proof-texting because most are still all about the death of the letter rather being a living epistle by the life of the Spirit.
In this manner, most pursuing literalism for the text have become allegoricists. I'm crucified. Literally. THAT's literalism. THAT's faith, which is a hypostasis (the absolute assured foundational underlying substantial objective reality of existence). My existence is in Christ. Literally, and for all everlasting.
Last edited:
oatmeal
Well-known member
With some thought
is simple to understand
God's word, the logos in writing is theopneustos - God breathed. II Timothy 3:16
The word, the message, that comes out of God's mouth (figuratively speaking, God is spirit, God does not literally have a mouth) is God's words. His communication is His only. It is Him
Even as your words are you, His words are Him.
Yet, as soon as they leave His "mouth" they are distinct from him.
God's written word is distinct from God, yet they communicate God perfectly ( not completely, we have no way to process all that God is).
God's words are God and only God.
God uses one major way to communicate himself as fully as He needs to communicate himself to us, the written word.
From this written word we learn all we need to know of God for the present. It alone instructs us on everything we need to know to live a godly life. II Peter 1:3-4
Memra - God
sometimes my memra ain't to good. I forget things
:thumb:
Yep!
"And the Memra of GOD walked with Adam in the garden the cool of the day."
Do you even get your positive reps on that tapi-talk or what ever it is?
what is tap-a-talk anyway ?
Well.....that's th' question, ain't it?
Hey.....I'm a flat belt pulley sort of guy.
V-belt
I waded through this, never having heard some of your terms used before, but I *think* I got the gist of it, and if I do, I agree. If I could try to paraphrase here, everything "they" are taking as allegorical is really literal, and literally available? If this is what you are saying, I agree. The Spirit has led me through things that most people THINK are allegories of spiritual truth but in reality are literal experiences we are SUPPOSED to go through, if we are truly IN CHRIST.
But they became so superstitious and fearful of receiving the wrong spirit, they shunned the real one. Peace