ECT Confusion Over Being "Born Again"

Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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Jesus is God a Requirement For True Faith

Jesus is God a Requirement For True Faith

Jerry Shugart said:
The "life" of which you speak comes as a result of believing, not before believing, as the Calvinists teach:
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​
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Just proof that you never acknowledge what has come before, but simply continue to repeat your claims as if you have settled the matter:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Open-Theists&p=4887532&viewfull=1#post4887532

AMR
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Let's start with just this one. How did the eunuch know he needed to be baptized in water?
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jamie said:
You said the Ethiopian was born of God and yet he was riding in a chariot. How do you explain that?
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Jerry Shugart said:
I think that he learned of it at verse 35.
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Moreover the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth, in his humiliation his judgment was taken away: who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I beseech you, of whom does the Prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other? And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, (Isa 53:7-8), preached . . .

And as they traversed according to the Way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said, Behold, water! (Isa 54:9).
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
I think that he learned of it at verse 35.
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I agree, the words he heard. Phillip told him the good news(gospel) about Jesus so from that we can know that baptism is part of the gospel. Let's put that theory to the test.

When we look at the conversion of Cornelius, after hearing the word of the Lord and being given the Holy Spirit Peter commands them to be baptized.
Acts 10:47 "Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

Again, the jailer. They told him the word of the Lord and was baptized.
Acts 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.

Again, the conversion of the men in Ephesus, we see that they were taught accurately the things concerning Jesus with one exception. Paul doesn't question the good news they heard about Jesus. He considers them believers, but he doesn't give them the Holy Spirit until they have been properly baptized in Jesus' name. Acts 18:24-19:6

To help us understand how Christians are converted, the bible gives us about 12 examples through out Acts all the way into Paul's last journey and each time they were baptized in the name of Jesus just as Jesus instructed on how to make Christians.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Just proof that you never acknowledge what has come before, but simply continue to repeat your claims as if you have settled the matter
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As usual you try as hard as you can to prove that life precedes faith despite the fact that the Apostle John makes it plain the life comes as a result of believing.

Are you not even aware that when we are made alive with Christ we are saved:

"But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved" (Eph.2:4-5).​

You Calvinists do not even understand the most basic things in regard to how a person receives spiritual life.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
I agree, the words he heard. Phillip told him the good news(gospel) about Jesus so from that we can know that baptism is part of the gospel. Let's put that theory to the test.

When we look at the conversion of Cornelius, after hearing the word of the Lord and being given the Holy Spirit Peter commands them to be baptized.
Acts 10:47 "Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
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Did you not notice that the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius BEFORE he was baptized with water?
 
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DAN P

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Did you not notice that the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius BEFORE he was baptized with water?
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Hi and I wonder if he can say why the Holy Spirit fell BEFORE Water Baptism ??

He should read Acts 1:5 has the answer as there are 2 Baptisms here , One is Water Baptism and the other is Baptized with Holy Spirit , and there it is !!

He will not believe it !!

dan p
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
DAN P said:
One is Water Baptism and the other is Baptized with Holy Spirit, and there it is !!
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Water baptism pictures the death of the old person and the resurrection of a new person.

This is done by the holy Spirit.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
There is disagreement between people on this thread in regard to what happens when someone is "born again." Let us look at this passage from the pen of Peter:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23-25).​

The Greek word translated "being born again" is in the present tense so can we not understand that when a person believes the gospel he is at that time born again?

We can see James speak of the same truth here:

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).

Here the Lord Jesus also speaks about being born again:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:16).​

Is there any reason not to think that in this instance when a person believes the gospel then at that moment they are born again?

Another question that must be considered is whether or not being "born again" is the same thing as being "born of the Spirit" and being "born of God."

Thanks!
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No, there is no reason not to think and believe that God would hold back anything good for people when they believe. When anyone does Romans 10:9, they are immediately saved/born again.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
oatmeal said:
When anyone does Romans 10:9, they are immediately saved/born again.
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I would suggest to you that is not the complete picture of conversion as people view it. When Jesus told the apostles how to make Christians, it was more than just that.
 
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DAN P

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Why would I ignore the context to understand why they received the Holy Spirit before water?

If that is how you try to understand the scripture, you can make it say anything. CONTEXT!
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Hi and in Acts 2:38 , it was Repentance and then Water Baptism BUT it changed in Acts 10 47 the sequence , changed !!

Holy Spirit first and then Water Baptism !!

There is a CHANGE COMING !!

Only Spirit Baptisma and not WATER !!

Like in Acts 19:4 and the WAY Paul Baptized by the Holy Spirit , by the LYING ON BY HANDS Actgs 19:6 !!

In other words NO MORE WATER BAPRISM !!

dan p
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
DAN P said:
Hi and in Acts 2:38 , it was Repentance and then Water Baptism BUT it changed in Acts 10 47 the sequence , changed !!

Holy Spirit first and then Water Baptism !!

There is a CHANGE COMING !!

Only Spirit Baptisma and not WATER !!

Like in Acts 19:4 and the WAY Paul Baptized by the Holy Spirit , by the LYING ON BY HANDS Actgs 19:6 !!

In other words NO MORE WATER BAPRISM !!

dan p
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This is one event that has LOTS of context and you totally ignore it.
 
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