Coal jobs on the comeback since 2016

ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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ok doser said:
how much coal would we have to mine to bury Nork under 50 feet of coal?
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Just let them keep digging all the while thinking China will continue to import it.

Can anyone see why it's a very bad idea to continue to badmouth China in such a context?

People who are taking Trump over the coals for his supposed flipping on the currency manipulation of China are very short sighted.

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The Barbarian

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The average of all polls is (Barbarian checks)

42.5%, which is a substantial rise. His disapproval rate is only 50.5% currently. And as he flips more and more of the stupid or vicious things he was promising to do, it might rise further.

He went though a rough time, with some bad choices for appointments of people of questionable loyalty to the U.S., a fiasco trying to change healthcare, and some comical tweets. And lying about the size of the crowd at his inauguration was really an unnecessary mistake. But he seems to have put most of that behind him.

It looks as though the adults in the WH, whoever they are, are a good effect on him. If he continues to renege on the crazier things he promised to do, his popularity might actually get to 50%.

The coal thing isn't going to help. When it doesn't happen, and when those out-of-work miners realize that Trump actually did some things to make coal less economically feasible, it's not going to help. On the other hand, he did continue Obamam's clean coal research, so if there's a breakthrough there, it could change everything.

Should be fun to watch.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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The Barbarian said:
The average of all polls is (Barbarian checks)

42.5%, which is a substantial rise. His disapproval rate is only 50.5% currently. And as he flips more and more of the stupid or vicious things he was promising to do, it might rise further.

He went though a rough time, with some bad choices for appointments of people of questionable loyalty to the U.S., a fiasco trying to change healthcare, and some comical tweets. And lying about the size of the crowd at his inauguration was really an unnecessary mistake. But he seems to have put most of that behind him.

It looks as though the adults in the WH, whoever they are, are a good effect on him. If he continues to renege on the crazier things he promised to do, his popularity might actually get to 50%.

The coal thing isn't going to help. When it doesn't happen, and when those out-of-work miners realize that Trump actually did some things to make coal less economically feasible, it's not going to help. On the other hand, he did continue Obamam's clean coal research, so if there's a breakthrough there, it could change everything.

Should be fun to watch.
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If he makes a deal with China for anthracite coal, some jobs will come back.

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The Barbarian

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ClimateSanity said:
If he makes a deal with China for anthracite coal, some jobs will come back.
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That would help alleviate the damage he did by loosening rules on fracking (which makes natural gas an even more economical fuel than coal).

But there's this:
Coal-burning in China is in significant decline, according to official figures released on Tuesday, signalling a major turnaround for the world’s biggest polluter.

The new data is good news for the fight against climate change but bad for the struggling global coal industry.

China saw a huge increase in coal-burning for power and industry in the last two decades but has suffered serious air pollution as a result. However in recent years there has been a surge in low-carbon energy and a slowdown in the economy - GDP growth fell in 2015 to its lowest in 25 years - as China moves away from manufacturing.
...
China’s coal use has fallen in 2015 across a wide range of measures and its national carbon emissions are likely to have fallen by about 3% as a result. There was a 3.5% drop in coal production, coal-fired electricity generation fell 2.8% and overall power generation dropped 0.2%, the first fall in 50 years. There were similar decreases in coal-intensive heavy industry such as iron, steel and cement.

Other recent developments were coal imports to China plummeting by 35% year-on-year in December 2015 and the government’s ban on new coal mines for three years.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...l-burning-in-significant-decline-figures-show
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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The Barbarian said:
That would help alleviate the damage he did by loosening rules on fracking (which makes natural gas an even more economical fuel than coal).

But there's this:
Coal-burning in China is in significant decline, according to official figures released on Tuesday, signalling a major turnaround for the world’s biggest polluter.

The new data is good news for the fight against climate change but bad for the struggling global coal industry.

China saw a huge increase in coal-burning for power and industry in the last two decades but has suffered serious air pollution as a result. However in recent years there has been a surge in low-carbon energy and a slowdown in the economy - GDP growth fell in 2015 to its lowest in 25 years - as China moves away from manufacturing.
...
China’s coal use has fallen in 2015 across a wide range of measures and its national carbon emissions are likely to have fallen by about 3% as a result. There was a 3.5% drop in coal production, coal-fired electricity generation fell 2.8% and overall power generation dropped 0.2%, the first fall in 50 years. There were similar decreases in coal-intensive heavy industry such as iron, steel and cement.

Other recent developments were coal imports to China plummeting by 35% year-on-year in December 2015 and the government’s ban on new coal mines for three years.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...l-burning-in-significant-decline-figures-show
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Any climate change is natural. It's like fighting a ghost that doesn't exist.

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The Barbarian

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ClimateSanity said:
Any climate change is natural.
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Unless it's man-made, as the current warming is. Because we're in the midst of a marked decrease in sunspot activity, we should be experiencing low temperatures. Instead, we had another record high year. It doesn't mean the solar minimum has no effect; it just means that human activity is overriding natural cycles at this time.

However, that's not the point here. What's important is that China is moving away from coal, just as the market in other countries is declining.

So it's very unlikely that China would want to buy coal from us.

World Coal, the trade journal for coal sums it up in the February 2016 edition:

China’s largest coal miner, Shenhua, saw coal production fall 8.4% in 2015, according to its latest operational data released to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. Coal sales fell by 17.9%, while coal imports collapsed by 97.1% to just 200 000 t – and nothing in December 2015.

As a result, with 1.2 million t of coal exports (down 25% on 2014), the company became net exporter of coal for the first time – a fact the IEEFA picked up in its analysis of Shenhua’s results.

“With Shenhua owning its own dedicated in-house rail and coal port infrastructure (in fact, the largest coal port in the world) and with the company reporting a significant net cash profit margin on its in-house coal production, there is scope now for an acceleration of coal exports from China in the face of continued declines in domestic demand,” wrote the IEEFA’s Tim Buckley.
https://www.worldcoal.com/coal/01022016/chinas-shenhua-becomes-net-exporter-of-coal-2016-138/

If the Clean Coal initiative makes a breakthough, then all bets are off. But short of that, it doesn't look good for coal miners.

And Trump made it worse by making fracking easier to do.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
The Barbarian said:
Unless it's man-made, as the current warming is. Because we're in the midst of a marked decrease in sunspot activity, we should be experiencing low temperatures. Instead, we had another record high year. It doesn't mean the solar minimum has no effect; it just means that human activity is overriding natural cycles at this time.

However, that's not the point here. What's important is that China is moving away from coal, just as the market in other countries is declining.

So it's very unlikely that China would want to buy coal from us.

World Coal, the trade journal for coal sums it up in the February 2016 edition:

China’s largest coal miner, Shenhua, saw coal production fall 8.4% in 2015, according to its latest operational data released to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. Coal sales fell by 17.9%, while coal imports collapsed by 97.1% to just 200 000 t – and nothing in December 2015.

As a result, with 1.2 million t of coal exports (down 25% on 2014), the company became net exporter of coal for the first time – a fact the IEEFA picked up in its analysis of Shenhua’s results.

“With Shenhua owning its own dedicated in-house rail and coal port infrastructure (in fact, the largest coal port in the world) and with the company reporting a significant net cash profit margin on its in-house coal production, there is scope now for an acceleration of coal exports from China in the face of continued declines in domestic demand,” wrote the IEEFA’s Tim Buckley.
https://www.worldcoal.com/coal/01022016/chinas-shenhua-becomes-net-exporter-of-coal-2016-138/

If the Clean Coal initiative makes a breakthough, then all bets are off. But short of that, it doesn't look good for coal miners.

And Trump made it worse by making fracking easier to do.
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The warming is not manmade

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The Barbarian

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ClimateSanity said:
The warming is not manmade
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Your confusion about the causes of warming don't really matter. As you see, Trump's actions have actually helped to reduce the number of jobs for coal miners, and hoping that China will buy more coal is a foolish idea, since they are now a net exporter of coal.

The Clean Coal initiative may yet make a difference, but I wouldn't count on it.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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The Barbarian said:
Your confusion about the causes of warming don't really matter. As you see, Trump's actions have actually helped to reduce the number of jobs for coal miners, and hoping that China will buy more coal is a foolish idea, since they are now a net exporter of coal.

The Clean Coal initiative may yet make a difference, but I wouldn't count on it.
Click to expand...
The warming is not manmade. The confusion is yours.

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