Chance or Design (Evolution or Creation)

[JudgeRightly]

Are you sure the entire book is available online? This link appears to be a collection of summaries.

Do you not know what a "Preface" is?

It's the part at the beginning of a book that introduces the reader to the subject of the book.

Use the navigation buttons at the top and bottom of the page to go to the next or previous pages, and use the menu on the left to browse through the different parts of the book.

Have you never used an online book before?

Or are you just being dumb on purpose?

 

[Stripe]

I think this dude has one too many birds on the antenna.

 

[The Barbarian]

See Stripe's post above on this.



I think they could have migrated to the area of land that became Australia, and then got stranded there in the days of Peleg.



No, but they can certainly travel over dry land.

Immediately following the flood, the waters were still only a hundred feet or so below the levels they are now. There would have been a significant land bridge between southern Asia and Australia (and Africa and Madagascar, for that matter, and Russia and Alaska, and southeast North America and the Caribbean, etc).

No. Learn about Wallace's Line:

Asia and Australia were united with what are now islands on their respective continental shelves as continuous land masses, but the deep water between those two large continental shelf areas was, for over 50 million years, a barrier that kept the flora and fauna of Australia separated from those of Asia. Wallacea consists of islands that were not recently connected by dry land to either of the continental land masses, and thus were populated by organisms capable of crossing the straits between islands. "Weber's Line" runs through this transitional area (to the east of centre), at the tipping point between dominance by species of Asian against those of Australian origin.[6]

It can reasonably be concluded it was an ocean barrier preventing species migration because the physical aspects of the separated islands are very similar.[7] Species found only on the Asian side include tigers and rhinoceroses, while marsupials and monotremes are only found on the eastern side of the Line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Line

So the evolution of placental mammals came too late for them to cross over the deep water along Wallace's line, although more shallow areas were open to them during the last ice age.

 

[Stripe]

No. Learn about Wallace's Line.

No. Learn about the Hydroplate theory.

We've already learned that evolution does not work. You admitted it yourself, with your own source declaring natural selection to be useless.

What actually happened is that marsupials were wiped out pretty much everywhere else after sea levels stabilized and cut Australia off.

Evidence. :up:

 

[Guyver]

Do you accept or reject the notion that chromosome mutations can become fixed in a population?

6days, i’m Quoting myself here because I’m disappointed that you didn’t answer it? How could you not answer one of the most basic questions of evolutionary biology? You are the one who said you wanted to discuss genetics.

Do you not know the answer?

Does anyone here know the answer besides Barbarian?

 

[JudgeRightly]

No. Learn about Wallace's Line:

Asia and Australia were united with what are now islands on their respective continental shelves as continuous land masses, but the deep water between those two large continental shelf areas was, for over 50 million years, a barrier that kept the flora and fauna of Australia separated from those of Asia. Wallacea consists of islands that were not recently connected by dry land to either of the continental land masses, and thus were populated by organisms capable of crossing the straits between islands. "Weber's Line" runs through this transitional area (to the east of centre), at the tipping point between dominance by species of Asian against those of Australian origin.[6]

It can reasonably be concluded it was an ocean barrier preventing species migration because the physical aspects of the separated islands are very similar.[7] Species found only on the Asian side include tigers and rhinoceroses, while marsupials and monotremes are only found on the eastern side of the Line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallace_Line

So the evolution of placental mammals came too late for them to cross over the deep water along Wallace's line, although more shallow areas were open to them during the last ice age.

This is what happens when you assume the truth of your own position.

The evidence says that there was a flood, so where did the waters go?

Recovery Phase. Where did the water go? When the compression event began on a particular hydroplate, the plate crushed, thickened, buckled, and rose out of the water. As it did, the flood waters receded. Simultaneously, the upward-surging, subterranean water was “choked off ” as the plates settled onto the subterranean chamber floor. With the water source largely shut off, the deep, newly-opened basins between continents became reservoirs into which the flood waters returned. As you will recall, the floor of the subterranean chamber was about 60 miles below the Earth’s surface. Consequently, a few centuries after the flood, sea level was much lower than it is today. This provided land bridges between continents, allowing animal and human migration for perhaps several centuries. Draining flood waters swept vegetation, its attached bacteria, and sediments onto the new ocean floors. There, the bacteria fed on the vegetation and produced methane. Much of this methane has combined with cold, deep ocean waters to become vast amounts of methane hydrates along coastlines. Flood waters draining down steep continental slopes eroded deep channels called submarine canyons. They are now on the ocean floor, but downstream of today’s major rivers. After the flood, hydroplates rested on portions of the former chamber floor and oceans covered most other portions. Because the thickened hydroplates applied greater pressure to the floor than did the water, the hydroplates slowly sank into the chamber floor (the mantle) over the centuries, lifting other parts of the deep ocean floor and raising sea level. (Imagine covering half of a waterbed with a cloth and the other half with a thick metal plate. The sinking metal plate will lift the cloth.) As sea level rose in the centuries after the flood, animals were forced to higher ground and were sometimes isolated on islands far from present continental boundaries. Classic examples of this are finches and other animals Charles Darwin found on the Galapagos Islands, 650 miles off the coast of Ecuador. Today, those islands are the only visible remains of a submerged South American peninsula. Darwin believed the finches were blown there during a giant storm. Even if Darwin’s unlikely storm happened, both a male and female finch, rugged enough to survive the traumatic trip, must have ended up on the same island. The more sediments continents carried and the thicker continents grew during the compression event, the deeper continents sank. This also depressed the Moho beneath them. Newly formed mountains sank even more, depressing the Moho as deep as 50 miles below the Earth’s surface. [See Figure 68.] As ocean floors rose in compensation, the Moho below them rose as well. This is why continents are so different from ocean bottoms and why the Moho (where it can be detected) is so deep beneath mountains and yet so shallow beneath the ocean floor.

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview7.html#wp17400957

 

[Guyver]

Do you not know what a "Preface" is?

It's the part at the beginning of a book that introduces the reader to the subject of the book.

Use the navigation buttons at the top and bottom of the page to go to the next or previous pages, and use the menu on the left to browse through the different parts of the book.

Have you never used an online book before?

Or are you just being dumb on purpose?

It must be kind of sad to be such an unhappy person.

Anyway, in spite of your insults, I actually did figure out how to work that archaic money making Young Earth Creationist website peddling materials.

In any event I did manage to digest a significant amount of information from the author regarding hydroplate theory. It’s not bad. It’s actually well thought and the author is a very intelligent man. He has good and well formed ideas.

And do you know what those are? They are questions which define the very backbone of science. Those questions lead to hypothesis which can be tested. I myself am a thinking man, appreciate science, have made observations and even practiced science. In fact, I’m practicing it now. I have observed the the sun seems to set several degrees north of west each summer. So, I have begun taking measurements....gathering data.....and formulating ideas about what my observations mean. It’s just for my own personal knowledge, but I could form a hypothesis and go through the scientific process, then publish a paper.

Once that has been done, any other scientist or thinking person can examine my work and make criticisms if they find it. If those criticisms withstand scrutiny, my ideas would be rejected. But if my ideas did in fact withstand scrutiny....then there is more to study and learn.

 

[Guyver]

That’s what needs to be done with HPT.

 

[The Barbarian]

This is what happens when you assume the truth of your own position.

Wallace's line is an observable fact. No point in anyone denying it.

This is what happens when you assume the truth of your own position:

The evidence says that there was a flood, so where did the waters go?

In fact, as you learned earlier, there is no evidence whatever for a global flood, and scripture does not say there was a global flood.

You merely assumed your belief was correct and found someone who would make up a story to fit.

 

[Guyver]

I think this dude has one too many birds on the antenna.

Not bad. Birds are weird. Some are very intelligent, like the crow and others are as dumb as rocks.

 

[Guyver]

I have some criticisms for hydroplate theory, and I’m not even finished studying it.

 

[Stripe]

Wallace's line is an observable fact.

Nope. It's just a theory.

Not to mention that is not what is being challenged.

Do you intend to live out the rest of your life in denial?

This is what happens when you assume the truth of your own position

In fact, as you learned earlier, there is no evidence whatsoever for evolution, and scripture says "six days" and a global flood.

You merely assumed your belief was correct and found someone who made up a story.

 

[Stripe]

I have some criticisms for hydroplate theory, and I’m not even finished studying it.

:rotfl:

Does it have to do with where the sun sets? :chuckle:

 

[Guyver]

And still, all this time no one answers the question.

In that case, let me ask you one. How can you criticize something you know nothing about? You may as well say shamballahcollalinga. You make no sense.

If you haven’t learned all the information but you’ve already formed an opinion, you’re not skillful thinkers. No one wants to follow dumb people. You reject evolution but you don’t even know that not only can a chromosome mutation become fixed in a population, but we humans have one.

Some have two or more.

 

[Guyver]

:rotfl:

Does it have to do with where the sun sets? :chuckle:

What do you know of where the sun sets? I want to hear it and be precise. Please.

Notice how I said please?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Wallace's line is an observable fact. No point in anyone denying it.

Who's denying the existence of this line?

Not me.

I'm simply saying that your interpretation of evidence is led by your preconceived notions.

This is what happens when you assume the truth of your own position:

In fact, as you learned earlier, there is no evidence whatever for a global flood,

"No evidence" he says.

Look around you, Barbarian.

The evidence is LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

https://kgov.com/hydroplate-theory-and-walt-brown-on-the-global-flood

There's more evidence than you can shake a 14 billion year old stick at.

and scripture does not say there was a global flood.

Denying reality is one of the first signs of insanity, Barb. You should avoid doing that.

There's two lists in the above link, one for atheists, one for Christians. You might be interested in it.

You merely assumed your belief was correct and found someone who would make up a story to fit.

Rather, if there's anything I assume, it's that the Bible is literally true, and that any evidence that turns up about history will fall into place around it.

I have been convinced that the Hydroplate theory accurately describes both the creation of the earth and the flood of Noah, because it is the only theory that I have seen that matches the Bible to the extent that it does.

No other theory even comes close. Not evolution, not canopy, not CPT, not plate Tectonics. Nada.

 

[Stripe]

What do you know of where the sun sets? I want to hear it and be precise. Please.

Notice how I said please?

I know where you think it shines from. :chuckle:

 

[Guyver]

Oh wait.....Stripe goes to google to look it up so he can say something. She’s. I can use google. I’m doing it myself before I use google.

 

[Guyver]

I know where you think it shines from. :chuckle:

I knew it. I knew you had nothing wise to say and don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[The Barbarian]

Who's denying the existence of this line?

You are. Wallace's line is the point at which there have been no land bridges to Australia for many millions of years. This is why placentals never got to Australia.

I'm simply saying that your interpretation of evidence is led by your preconceived notions.

In this case, your preconceived notions are forcing you to deny the fact.

{Barbarian points out that there is no evidence for a global flood, nor does the Bible say there was one)

"No evidence" he says.
Look around you, Barbarian.
The evidence is LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

Nope.

There's more evidence than you can shake a 14 billion year old stick at.

So give us one bit of that evidence. And no, "just watch the video" won't work. If you don't understand it well enough to explain it to us, what makes you think it's right?

One more time. Show us some of that evidence for a global flood.

What have you got?