Aimiel said:
Uh, no, it is simple logic. Given eternity, if torment stopped, there would no longer be any smoke coming from said torment, ergo: eternal torment is a fact, established by The Word of God, which (obviously) you don't accept.
The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Edom. And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be drenched with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. And its streams shall be turned into pitch, and its dust into brimstone, and its land shall become burning pitch.
It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke of it shall ascend for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness. They shall call her nobles to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing. And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in her fortresses, and it shall be a habitation of dragons, and a court for owls. The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the isle, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech-owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate. Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them. And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it to them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.
(Isa 34:6-17 Webster)
"Fire That Is Not Quenched"
In Jer. 4.4, Jeremiah used it of the destruction of Jerusalem. In Jer. 21.12, he used it to describe the destruction of the house of David. In Amos 5.5, 6, Amos used it of the destruction of Jerusalem. In II K. 22.17, it's used of the destruction of Judah. In Isa. 34.10, Isaiah used it of the destruction of Edom, and in Isa. 66.24, he used it of the destruction of the enemies of the Messiah's people. See also Jer. 7.20, 17.27, where Jeremiah used it of the destruction of Judah, and Ezk. 20.47-48, where Ezekiel spoke of God's destruction of Jerusalem.
Perhaps the leading example used to express God's wrath and the "finality" of His judgments is the example of Sodom and Gomorra, destroyed by "eternal" fire.
A passage of scripture must be interpreted in context and with a true knowledge of the heart and intent of those involved in the passage.
The sixteenth chapter of Ezekiel is such a passage of scripture. It is a classic example of the Creator's view of what modern christianity calls the chiefest of sins.
The larger the portion of scripture, the more difficult it is to change its meaning. In a short sentence, one word can entirely change the whole sentence. It is much more difficult to change the meaning of an entire chapter. Ezekiel chapter sixteen truly reflects our Father's view of the grossest of mankind's sins and his ultimate dealings with our transgressions.
These are certain passages that express God's view of the sins of Sodom, Samaria, and Jerusalem and his ultimate judgment of each of them. I believe it shows very clearly why vengeance must be left to our Father and what the outcome of His vengeance will be.
As you read the chapter, please note:
God begins the chapter with His grievances against those who were at this time called "His chosen people." He reminds them they were heathen when He called them and it was He who turned them into "chosen." (Ez. 16:1-14)
His "chosen people" trusted in their own beauty, played the harlot and chased after foreign gods. He called this
adultery which, according to the law was punishable by death.
The God of Israel said He would judge their sins
by bringing against them all those with whom she committed adultery.
"And I will judge you as women who break wedlock or shed blood are judged; I will bring blood upon you in fury and jealousy. . . They shall "throw down your shrines and break down your high places. They shall also strip you of your clothes, take your beautiful jewelry, and leave you naked and bare. (Please note the symbolism) They shall also bring up an assembly against you, and they shall stone you with stones and thrust you through with their swords." (Ez. 16:38-41)
This was their judgment, He would then be quiet, and
angry no more.
Question: will He judge them again for this sin, or is this the judgment for that sin? If this is their judgment, what follows their judgment? "'You have
paid for your lewdness and your abominations," says the Lord. "For this says the Lord God: I will deal with you as you have done, who despise the oath by breaking the covenant.
Nevertheless I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed . . .when I provide an atonement for all you have done,' says the Lord God."
Note that
the final judgment for Israel would be an atonement for their sins even though He had them "stoned and thrust through with a sword." They were killed! "I kill and I make alive."
In this chapter which graphically describes the sins of the "chosen people" and their judgment, is also the sins of Sodom, and her judgment. Sodom's sins, from the Creator's viewpoint were not nearly as bad as His "chosen people's" sins.
"Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abominations before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit. Samaria did not commit half of your sins; but you have multiplied your abominations more than they, and have justified your sisters by all the abominations which you have done." (Ez. 16:50-54)
God's own people committed more wicked sins than the heathen. They broke the covenant with the Creator. In spite of this, He would provide atonement for their sins, forgive their iniquity, and will at that time
give Sodom and her daughters to God's chosen as daughters! (Ez. 16:53-63)
If you look at the history of Israel or the Church, you will discover that the sins of His people have always been greater than the sins of the heathen. We just refuse to acknowledge them. We are blinded by our pride, which was Israel's problem as well. It is perhaps a believer's biggest problem, pride and self-righteousness.
When this judgement happens God's own people will remember their ways and be ashamed and will receive their sisters Sodom and Samaria as sisters.
This chapter is a classical example showing how the Creator
kills and then makes alive again. It shows that while He judges for grievous sins against Him, the ultimate end of His judgments is mercy. It shows that the most heinous of sins are committed by those who claim to know Him, not those who do not. It also shows we have judged Him before the time. Have we received Sodom back as a sister?
Probably not...:think:
Now...smoke ascending forever is obviously an expression that should not be taken literally. I mean...If God said it will be raining cats and dogs for forty days would you think he really meant cats and dogs?
