BRXII Battle talk

[red77]

That is by and far the most retarded thing I have seen in any of your posts. Saul had no control over God getting His attention, no. But it was still up to Saul to decide which way to go. However, since Saul was already a follower of the Jewish religion, and therfore a believer in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it was pretty easy for him to accept that Jesus was who He says He is. Especially since Saul was already convinced that it was the LORD Who was appearing to him. When Saul asked, "Who are you LORD," Jesus answered, "I am Jesus, Whom you persecute." And that was all it took. But there was no interference with Saul's free will.

You're right - Saul had no control, I dont know about you but if I'd been knocked off my horse by a blinding light and a loud voice saying what Jesus said then I'd say that my "free will" had taken a bit of a knock.....in a good way........
No interference? Get real........

 

[red77]

The message of reconiliation is that man can be made right with God through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Only those who are in Christ are reconciled.

For he will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that All things are in subjection, it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him. But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that God may be all in all.
(1Cor:27-28)

Out of "context"...? Hyperbole? :think:

 

[Ecumenicist]

The message of reconiliation is that man can be made right with God through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Only those who are in Christ are reconciled.

2 Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Say all you want, the WORD stands on its own.

You never did answer the question of whether you would cast your own children into
everlasting torment, and stand on a platform over their buring bodies, basking in the smoke
of their burning bodies and agonized screams.

 

[PKevman]

Fine - its obviously going to bring up emotional responses, but I'm going to say this to you again pastor, how can you claim that God can achieve his own will - COMPLETELY - and still believe in eternal sufering?
God works all things out within the counsel of his will - yes or no? God wills all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth - possible or not for God? With man this is impossible - with God ALL kinds of things are possible - in direct context to the disciples shocked question regarding who could be saved......... Your doctrine says that God cannot achieve his will......

Red I have already answered all of these questions with you many times over in various threads and debates. You honestly refuse to acknowledge it, so I'm done answering. Honestly it is quite irritating. Here is the final answer and you can take it or leave it:

God desires all men to be saved, but all ment won't be saved. We know this because Jesus said the way to life is very narrow and only a few find it. We know Jesus said that at the day of judgment, He will separate His own people from the ones who aren't His and that those who aren't His are cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity.

If what you say is true the verse should say God desires all men to be saved and forces them to be so.

The Lord says with God all things are possible and that is true. We have never denied that. But it still does not ever say that all will be saved. In fact it says directly the opposite and extremely clearly at that. You refuse to see it and you make the excuse that you have heard all of this before. Fine then, why in the world do you try and FORCE your doggone views on everyone else? It is clear that most of the people on this board don't accept Universalism. You won't get me to accept Universalism no matter how hard you try, so please just give it up.

And here is a news flash: I believe pretty strongly in most aspects of the Open View, so if you really want to understand that, why not participate in some of the many fine threads on that subject here and you will understand why I believe like I do. I don't believe God violates the free will of man and that He allows us to choose to reject Him or accept Him. The Bible bears this out for us again and again.

I also do not believe that everyone will choose to accept God. I don't see it anywhere in the Scriptures, and your repeated attempts to get me to agree has not worked, because I don't believe it is there. I believe the verses Universalism uses to try and prove its case are taken way out of context and don't mean what Universalism says they mean. I have explained that to you time and time again, Red. I have explained it in the Battle Royale, and I have explained it to Stephen. If anyone could have convinced me that Universalism was Biblical it might have been Stephen because I honestly like the guy, but I don't believe it is Biblical and I honestly don't think I ever will. Hey if I'm wrong everyone is saved anyway, so why keep at it?

I believe very firmly that the Scriptures teach irrefutably that many will not in fact accept God's provision of salvation found in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that those who don't will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. I don't believe the Bible teaches that all will be saved and I don't believe that people can repent and be saved after they die. I find that nowhere in the Bible. It is not there because it is not true. There is no repentence after death, nor is there a single verse indicating someone repents after death.

The most wicked aspect of Universalism to me is the belief that Satan and the fallen angels will repent and be saved. That is a wicked and unBiblical doctrine. Nothing anyone has said or ever will say can show me anything otherwise.

I am always willing to study and search Scriptures and if anyone can show me a verse clearly where it says Satan and fallen angels repent and get saved I would be glad to admit I was wrong. But no such verse exists. To continue to insist it does is just ludicrous.

Many churches and religions have abandoned the teaching of the eternal punishment as it is found in the Bible, but I will not be such a Pastor. I am not out to win popularity contests but to preach the Word and warn people that they need to be saved or they will have a day of reckoning with the Lord, and it won't be pretty. It is not popular these days to preach and teach the fires of hell, but the Bible is plain on the subject and if the Bible is plain on the subject then we have to teach it.

There are many other important doctrines in the Word of God that we must never abandon as well: such as the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Trinity-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, salvation is by grace through faith alone plus nothing else, salvation is through Jesus Christ and Him alone, He is the only way to the Father, etc....
I will always be there to stand for Biblical truth and will be willing to defend against untruth.

God bless and have a good night.

 

[PKevman]

2 Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Say all you want, the WORD stands on its own.

You never did answer the question of whether you would cast your own children into
everlasting torment, and stand on a platform over their buring bodies, basking in the smoke
of their burning bodies and agonized screams.

None of God's children are cast into the Lake of Fire Dave.

 

[Ecumenicist]

None of God's children are cast into the Lake of Fire Dave.

If the unsaved are not God's children, why would He have sent Christ to die for them?

The good news is this, Christ died for us when we were yet sinners.

 

[PKevman]

Those who are cast into the Lake of Fire are God's enemies and not His children. They are cast into the Lake of Fire because of their refusal to repent of their sins and accept God's free gift of salvation found in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a final judgment and is just as eternal as the eternal life that God grants to those who ARE His children-we who are of the faith.

I think we have made all of this abundantly clear Dave Miller.

 

[PKevman]

If the unsaved are not God's children, why would He have sent Christ to die for them?

Because He loves mankind Dave. He created people to have a relationship with Him. We blew it. He made a way where we can again have a relationship with Him. But we must accept HIS free gift of salvation in order to be adopted into the family of God and be called His children.

The good news is this, Christ died for us when we were yet sinners.

That is exactly right. Christians are simply sinners who have been saved by the grace of God and Christ died for us. It is only by faith that we are adopted into the family of God.

 

[PKevman]

Dave have you even read Battle Royale XII? Just out of curiosity? Because that is what this thread is supposed to be about.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Those who are cast into the Lake of Fire are God's enemies and not His children. They are cast into the Lake of Fire because of their refusal to repent of their sins and accept God's free gift of salvation found in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is a final judgment and is just as eternal as the eternal life that God grants to those who ARE His children-we who are of the faith.

I think we have made all of this abundantly clear Dave Miller.

OK so just answer the question. Your children are born, you raise them, then at about
say 16 years old they rebel, they say they hate you, they want nothing to do with you,
they tell you to mind your own business and get the hell out of their lives.

So, do you declare them your enemies, force them into a burning lake of fire, and then
climb a nice diving board overlooking the lake, and bask in their screams of terror and
the smoke of their burning torment?

 

[PKevman]

OK so just answer the question. Your children are born, you raise them, then at about
say 16 years old they rebel, they say they hate you, they want nothing to do with you,
they tell you to mind your own business and get the hell out of their lives.

So, do you declare them your enemies, force them into a burning lake of fire, and then
climb a nice diving board overlooking the lake, and bask in their screams of terror and
the smoke of their burning torment?

I have already plainly answered you that those who are cast into the lake of fire are not God's children. That makes your question a moot point at: "Your children are born".

The question has been answered. Either come up with something new or better or quit trolling this thread. Thank you.

 

[Ecumenicist]

I have already plainly answered you that those who are cast into the lake of fire are not God's children. That makes your question a moot point at: "Your children are born".

The question has been answered. Either come up with something new or better or quit trolling this thread. Thank you.

Your saying that these people that reject God, they weren't born God's children, they're
not offspring of Adam and Eve, not God's Creation?

 

[PKevman]

Your saying that these people that reject God, they weren't born God's children, they're
not offspring of Adam and Eve, not God's Creation?

nope. That isn't what we're saying. We're saying that people are not God's children until they accept Jesus Christ by faith. I don't know how much more clear we could be.

 

[PKevman]

You are not born God's child. You are born again and THEN you become God's child.

 

[PKevman]

Offspring of Adam and Eve are infected by a disease passed on from the first parents. It's called sin. Sin separates us from God and we are objects of wrath to Him until our sin problem is taken care of. Again, I think we have made this clear. You reject it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been answered.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Was Adam God's child, before he sinned?

 

[Ecumenicist]

OK I'll re-ask the question in a way that fits the scenario you describe.

Your children are born, you raise them, then at about say 16 years old they rebel,
get pregnant, they say they hate you, they want nothing to do with you, they tell
you to mind your own business and get the hell out of their lives.

So, do you disown them and your grandchildren, declare them all your enemies,
force them into a burning lake of fire, and then climb a nice diving board overlooking
the lake, and bask in their screams of terror and the smoke of their burning torment,
grandbabies included?

 

[PKevman]

OK I'll re-ask the question in a way that fits the scenario you describe.

Your children are born, you raise them, then at about say 16 years old they rebel,
get pregnant, they say they hate you, they want nothing to do with you, they tell
you to mind your own business and get the hell out of their lives.

So, do you disown them and your grandchildren, declare them all your enemies,
force them into a burning lake of fire, and then climb a nice diving board overlooking
the lake, and bask in their screams of terror and the smoke of their burning torment,
grandbabies included?

Dave you just asked the same question again, just worded differently. Again the question is flawed at: "Your children are born". God's children are those who are born again. Those who aren't born again are not God's children.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Was Adam God's child, before he sinned?

 

[Ecumenicist]

Something really, really doesn't fit here. As loathsome as we may be in God's eyes due to
original sin, even after killing his brother, God had mercy on Cain. At least in my bible. In
my book, God was a merciful grandparent, even for a child who murdered his other grandchild.

And then there was Seth. And Enoch. And Noah, with his wife and children. Then there's that
whole Abraham thing. And Moses, and the Red Sea.

Your admonition that no one is God's child until they are born again doesn't fit with scripture.

Then we're back to Saul, Paul. Killing Stephen, killing Christians. And yet God had Grace on Him
before he was born again.

Then there was you and I. Christ died for us before we accepted Him, before we were Christians.

If we were all so loathesome to God due to original sin, why send Christ to die on our behalf?

Because we weren't. We were prodigal children gone astray, and He calls us home while
we are yet sinners. This is the good news!