Bob Enyart Child Abuse- spanking conviction

[PDeverit]

Real Discipline

Real Discipline

Yeah, lets just talk to our children before they are at an age of reason, and then when the get to that age we will define their defiance clinically as ADHD, of course accompanied by medication.

Yes, of course, these parenting techniques, those of the "super-nanny", work on some kids.

But I would've loved to see her on my little sister, hah? Kid had an unending defiance built into her soul, enjoyed a verbal fight. And she was like that from the beginning, baby on.

My parents didn't hit her either, hit me, because I was a boy and needed toughening and in the 9 years between us spanking went from good discipline to borderline child abuse. So they read, many of the type of books you talk about, they preached, lectured, had the stare down, didn't give in to the tantrum, took away everything she had...it didn't matter. Some kids/people only react, or act out of fear, my sister is like that. It's the only consequence she understands, immediate and physical.

She finally found true consequences once she turned 20, a DUI with a jail stint, a drug charge and getting kicked out of the house, right after she got fired. That was the first time in her life she finally grew humble and realized self destruction actually hurt her instead of other people.

Some children just don't get this, and all of those false consequences don't sink in. Spanking is immediate, spanking works, yes it MAY set a violent standard in the child's life, but discipline is a more important lesson. IMHO

Many anti buttock-beating child advocates will agree that many children are over-medicated, because, again, like hitting, its an easier way to go (see Instead of Medicating and Punishing, by Laurie A. Couture).

As to your sister's example, the goal would have been for her to learn those lessons before adulthood. Therapists of troubled youth have often put them in a juvenile detention facility to teach this lesson. However, pretty much all of them get that buttock-beating doesn't do anything except increase later aggression or self-destructive behavior.

The goal in using real DISCIPLINE, (not buttock-beating) is to never, ever, ever use "false consequences". You follow through with real consequences 100% of the time, or you don't say anything.

Again, child buttock-beating is nothing more than an inherited bad habit, and it comes with its above mentioned hazards. Peace.

 

[Lighthouse]

Many anti buttock-beating child advocates will agree that many children are over-medicated, because, again, like hitting, its an easier way to go (see Instead of Medicating and Punishing, by Laurie A. Couture).

As to your sister's example, the goal would have been for her to learn those lessons before adulthood. Therapists of troubled youth have often put them in a juvenile detention facility to teach this lesson. However, pretty much all of them get that buttock-beating doesn't do anything except increase later aggression or self-destructive behavior.

The goal in using real DISCIPLINE, (not buttock-beating) is to never, ever, ever use "false consequences". You follow through with real consequences 100% of the time, or you don't say anything.

Again, child buttock-beating is nothing more than an inherited bad habit, and it comes with its above mentioned hazards. Peace.

That must be why I'm so violent and out of control.

 

[allsmiles]

That must be why I'm so violent and out of control.

Maybe you don't have what it takes to be violent and out of control.

I am both.

I got more than my fair share of Christian Family Values growing up. More spankings than you can shake a stick at.

I don't feel like the form of punishment has anything to do with it. Some people are trouble makers and laugh at their moms when they get spanked and some people are cream puffs who would have cowed to any form of discipline.

Some of the most well-behaved people I have ever known were not subjected to physically violent punishment when they were growing up. Some of the most unruly people I have ever known were subjected to physically violent punishment when they were growing up.

In my experience there's no difference. If there's no difference then there's no real reason to be physically violent with a child.

Children are helpless and fragile, still in the process of developing mentally and physically. What kind of unimaginative simian would plan on hurting a child?

 

[Lighthouse]

Let's see, take a rod to a child's backside, or let him touch the burning stove?:think:

 

[allsmiles]

Let's see, take a rod to a child's backside, or let him touch the burning stove?:think:

Let him touch the burning stove.

He'll learn on his own and the parent won't be burdened with the onus of having beaten a defenselss child with a rod.

I'll never understand your obsession with hurting people.

And you say you're not a violent person...

Did you read my post? This is such a vacuous response...

 

[allsmiles]

Lighthouse: you would be physically violent with a defenseless child for burning himself on a hot stove?

 

[chatmaggot]

Let him touch the burning stove.

He'll learn on his own and the parent won't be burdened with the onus of having beaten a defenselss child with a rod.

I'll never understand your obsession with hurting people.

And you say you're not a violent person...

Did you read my post? This is such a vacuous response...

If God let's "bad things" happen then God is somehow "evil" and "unloving" and whatever else non-Christians say.

However you advocate allowing a child to place their hand on a piece of metal heated to 350 degrees (assuming you have an electric stove) to teach them a lesson.

 

[Lighthouse]

Let him touch the burning stove.

He'll learn on his own and the parent won't be burdened with the onus of having beaten a defenselss child with a rod.

I'll never understand your obsession with hurting people.

And you say you're not a violent person...

Did you read my post? This is such a vacuous response...

I never said anything about beating. And the rod would hurt a lot less than the stove. It wouldn't require any medical attention either.

 

[allsmiles]

If God let's "bad things" happen then God is somehow "evil" and "unloving" and whatever else non-Christians say.

However you advocate allowing a child to place their hand on a piece of metal heated to 350 degrees (assuming you have an electric stove) to teach them a lesson.

No. I am advocating the child teaching himself a lesson. Experiential knowledge will always trump physically violent punishment as a teaching device.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No. I am advocating the child teaching himself a lesson. Experiential knowledge will always trump physically violent punishment as a teaching device.

Clearly you don't have any kids. :chuckle:

 

[allsmiles]

I never said anything about beating. And the rod would hurt a lot less than the stove. It wouldn't require any medical attention either.

As a child I burned my hand on a stove and all it took to recover was some ice and A&D ointment.

The child would learn through experience, not deliberate physical violence inflicted by a dominant influence, to not touch the stove. He would teach himself which is perhaps the most important part. He wouldn't be forced to comply.

What is it with you and inflicting violence and forcing people into complicity?

 

[allsmiles]

Clearly you don't have any kids. :chuckle:

Clearly.

But I have been a kid and I know unimaginative people when I see them.








He lives vicariously through himself...

 

[Nathon Detroit]

As a child I burned my hand on a stove and all it took to recover was some ice and A&D ointment.

The child would learn through experience, not deliberate physical violence inflicted by a dominant influence, to not touch the stove. He would teach himself which is perhaps the most important part. He wouldn't be forced to comply.

What is it with you and inflicting violence and forcing people into complicity?

Gee who should I trust?

A nerdy white dude with no kids?

Or....

A billion grandmothers throughout history?

:think:

 

[Lighthouse]

As a child I burned my hand on a stove and all it took to recover was some ice and A&D ointment.

And that's medical attention, moron.

The child would learn through experience, not deliberate physical violence inflicted by a dominant influence, to not touch the stove. He would teach himself which is perhaps the most important part. He wouldn't be forced to comply.

What is it with you and inflicting violence and forcing people into complicity?

You're an idiot.

How do you propose we teach children not to play with Kleenex, tearing it up and leaving confetti all over the floor? Do you suppose that there is something about that particular action that will give them the experiential learning to never do it again?

 

[allsmiles]

Gee who should I trust?

A nerdy white dude with no kids?

Or....

A billion grandmothers throughout history?

:think:

I'm smarter than your hyperbole, BK.

Like I said, I know unimaginative people when I see them.

And there's no fool like an old fool, so spare me your senile ol' grannies... it only reinforces my point about vacuous, out-dated ideas.





He is the most interesting person in the world...

 

[allsmiles]

And that's medical attention, moron.


You're an idiot.

I never disagreed with your assertion that a burn would require medical treatment, Lighthouse. I merely showed the simple steps that treatment would entail.

How do you propose we teach children not to play with Kleenex, tearing it up and leaving confetti all over the floor? Do you suppose that there is something about that particular action that will give them the experiential learning to never do it again?

We teach children to not play with Kleenex by showing them the proper way to use it of course.

Would you hit your child with a rod for tearing Kleenex up?

 

[Lighthouse]

We teach children to not play with Kleenex by showing them the proper way to use it of course.

Yeah, because a two year old is going to understand, completely.

Would you hit your child with a rod for tearing Kleenex up?

I've already spanked a child for it. Not my own, but I was babysitting.

 

[allsmiles]

Yeah, because a two year old is going to understand, completely.

A two year old can be capable of being toilet trained, so yes it's quite possible.

I've already spanked a child for it. Not my own, but I was babysitting.

What is it with your obsession with inflicting pain? Especially with inflicting pain on those who can't fight back?

That you're gleefully willing to inflict pain on a defenseless child is only evidence that you're unimaginative and sadistic.

People are put in jail for harming minors. I wish the administration was more willing to scrutinize your encouragement of criminal behavior.

 

[allsmiles]

And Lighthouse, I am interested to know:

Would you spank a child with a rod for tearing up Kleenex?

 

[Lighthouse]

A two year old can be capable of being toilet trained, so yes it's quite possible.

That they will understand not to tear up the Kleenex?

Knight was right. It is clear you've never had to help in the raising of a child, in any capacity.

What is it with your obsession with inflicting pain? Especially with inflicting pain on those who can't fight back?

It's not about the pain.

Though if there is absolutely no pain it is pointless. It has to at least sting to have an effect.

That you're gleefully willing to inflict pain on a defenseless child is only evidence that you're unimaginative and sadistic.

There is absolutely no glee in this, you moron.

And you can't be sadistic if you're a sociopath.

People are put in jail for harming minors. I wish the administration was more willing to scrutinize your encouragement of criminal behavior.

Prove that harm is being done...

And Lighthouse, I am interested to know:

Would you spank a child with a rod for tearing up Kleenex?

Didn't I already answer this question? Yes, I would.