Blast from the past!

Crucible

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The problem with hyper-Calvinism is that it makes the Crucifixion solely about condemning the reprobate and not about the justification of the elect.

The Crucifixion was both. The Cross was as a sword which pierced the Earth, empowering the righteous to nullify what the reprobate cursed upon them.

This is what classical Christianity is- unfortunately, many churches have taken a liking to a very passive outlook of what the Crucifixion was really about. A dubiously humanitarian one. I prefer the archaic view :idunno:
 

Totton Linnet

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I agree with that, if one wants to get real technical about it.

Having a will simply means you can make choices by reasoning.
Putting the word "free" with it doesn't really change anything.
You either have a will or you don't.

There, and I was looking for a fight :)

Yes choosing options is not freewill, the One who gives the options [and who visits us with consequences]has free sovereign will.

The bible NEVER ANYWHERE assigns to man the attribute of freewill...except in the matter of offerings, God never demands back what He has given freely.

On the other hand man is everywhere described as being a slave, a bondservant either to sin unto death or of righteousness unto life. We cannot serve 2 masters...but we will serve one.

"You were in bondage" says Paul "to the elemental spirits of the universe" but then Jesus came and set us FREE. Free to be what we were created to be, and that never was God.

Why do I make such a song and dance about it? keep banging on and on

Because it is what is wrong with the church...people start off wrong believing they were saved by their "own freewill" and they go through out life serving not God's good and perfect will but their "own free will" which they mistake for God's will.

Look at this sinnerman, a shooter, he's going to kill as many people as he can, he believes it is his "freewill" to do so.

The church taught him that, ever since he was tiny it has been drummed into him "God gave you freewill"

The bible says he is a slave to Satan who is a murderer

My friends nobody is going to give up their freewill [even though it is a delusion] but I think they might well cry out to be saved from out of the clutches of Satan who is a murderer.

Luther believed and I do, that the bondage of the human will is the most important lesson for us to learn...it was the breaking point between him and Catholic Erasmus.
 
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