Arminians & Calvinists Both Preach A Gospel That Saves No One

[Samie]

According to both camps, people are born in sin, hence born lost. Unless they believe, they could not be saved.

With this false gospel the unsaved can NEVER be saved, here's why:

If one is not saved, he is NOT in Christ. If he is not in Christ, he cannot bear fruit. If he cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If he cannot have faith, he cannot believe because faith is needed to believe. If he cannot believe, he cannot be saved, according to their false gospel.

Yet they persist in preaching the gospel that saves no one.

They either must repent or perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

 

[beloved57]

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies hating God and opposing Him Rom 5:10! So them whom Christ died for are saved from the penalty of sin and wrath of God when they are born. They are lost in only one respect, when they are born sinners they are without fellowship with God, and they are lost sheep without the Truth of God. But they are not lost as being condemned to hell like them Christ didn't die for.

 

[Samie]

They are lost in only one respect, when they are born sinners they are without fellowship with God, and they are lost sheep without the Truth of God.

So, how did they receive the truth of God?

 

[Samie]

I guess, B57, finds it difficult to explain how people - born sinners, without fellowship with God, lost sheep - were able to receive the Truth of God.

 

[Samie]

Unless preachers of both camps let go of their born-in-sin doctrine, they'll continue preaching a gospel that saves no one.

Repent or perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

 

[Samie]

Instead of born-in-sin, born-in-Christ.

And then people can believe.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Unless preachers of both camps let go of their born-in-sin doctrine, they'll continue preaching a gospel that saves no one.

Repent or perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

Unless Samie hears the true Gospel and places all his faith in Christ as his Savior, he'll be judged by his works and cast into The Lake of Fire.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Instead of born-in-sin, born-in-Christ.

And then people can believe.

You make no sense Samie.

 

[Samie]

You make no sense Samie.

Because you can't make out anything from my posts. But don't worry; that's normal for the spiritually cross-eyed.

You're not? Then address the OP, or make alibis, or run away. Your choice.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

According to both camps, people are born in sin, hence born lost. Unless they believe, they could not be saved.

With this false gospel the unsaved can NEVER be saved, here's why:

If one is not saved, he is NOT in Christ. If he is not in Christ, he cannot bear fruit. If he cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If he cannot have faith, he cannot believe because faith is needed to believe. If he cannot believe, he cannot be saved, according to their false gospel.

Yet they persist in preaching the gospel that saves no one.

They either must repent or perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

So for argument sake how to you see salvation acquired?

 

[Samie]

So for argument sake how to you see salvation acquired?

People are born ALREADY in Christ, because God saved Adam the same day he sinned, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. With Adam in Christ, all his descendants are born in Christ! Being in Christ, they have His power to overcome evil with good. They could overcome the evil of unbelief by believing. But if they refuse to overcome evil, Christ will blot out their names from the book of life and they'll end up in the lake of fire instead of in heaven.

Arminians and Calvinists teach the opposite. They teach that people, while not yet in Christ, can do SOMETHING to be in Him - they can believe and accept the gospel. And as I have pointed out, that brand of gospel saves no one.

 

[Mocking You]

People are born ALREADY in Christ,

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Psalm 51:5

With Adam in Christ, all his descendants are born in Christ! Being in Christ, they have His power to overcome evil with good.

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Romans 7:18-20

They could overcome the evil of unbelief by believing. But if they refuse to overcome evil, Christ will blot out their names from the book of life and they'll end up in the lake of fire instead of in heaven.

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Isaiah 64:6

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us. Titus 3:5

Arminians and Calvinists teach the opposite. They teach that people, while not yet in Christ, can do SOMETHING to be in Him - they can believe and accept the gospel. And as I have pointed out, that brand of gospel saves no one.

29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:29-31

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:31

 

[meshak]

Hi Samie, nice to meet you.

You know Christians are supposed to be followers of Christ. They base their faith according to what Jesus says.

And He says "for God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

It is confusing for beginners to understand Christianity if you try to read the whole Bible.

So that's why I tell people to read Jesus' word until you understand what His main messages are.

I am happy to answer your inquiry about Christianity.

blessings.

 

[Samie]

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Psalm 51:5

KJV Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

You apply David's statement to all people but you refuse to apply God's statement to Jeremiah to all people as well:

KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee

Therefore, conceived in sin but sanctified in the womb. And all those God sanctified, He made perfect forever! Heb 10:14.

 

[Mocking You]

KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee

You've cut the verse off, taking away its context. The verse is specific to Jeremiah, not to anyone. Here is the entire verse:

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

God selected Jeremiah to be a prophet from inside the womb. Like John the Baptist he was a special case.

Therefore, conceived in sin but sanctified in the womb. And all those God sanctified, He made perfect forever! Heb 10:14.

Here, instead of taking away part of the verse you've added to it. The portion bolded and underlined is not in the verse you quoted. Here is the actual verse, Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Your methods of quoting the Bible are dishonest. You add and take away portions to suit your theology.

Please address the multiple verses I quoted that show that belief is necessary prior to salvation, or being "in Christ".

 

[Samie]

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Romans 7:18-20

That's second phase of Paul's life. You teach that people start spiritually dead. But Paul taught the opposite: spiritually alive first, then died.

KJV Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Isaiah 64:6

Have become, meaning we did not start unclean; from clean to unclean.

not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us. Titus 3:5

Of course, we are in Christ by grace.

29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:29-31

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:31

Believing is a spiritual act DOABLE only by those who are in Christ for apart from Him we can do NOTHING. In Christ first, before one can believe. Believing is overcoming the evil of unbelief. And overcomers will Christ not blot out from the book of life! Rev 3:5

 

[Samie]

You've cut the verse off, taking away its context. The verse is specific to Jeremiah, not to anyone.

Then Ps 51:5 should be specific to David. Again, you apply to all what David said, but you refuse to apply to all what God Himself said.

Here is the entire verse:

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

God selected Jeremiah to be a prophet from inside the womb. Like John the Baptist he was a special case.

Here, instead of taking away part of the verse you've added to it. The portion bolded and underlined is not in the verse you quoted. Here is the actual verse, Hebrews 10:14

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Sanctification is God's act which He did through Christ. And He did it for all.

Your methods of quoting the Bible are dishonest. You add and take away portions to suit your theology.

Scriptures are not against my theology even if you add the portion quoted out for brevity.

Please address the multiple verses I quoted that show that belief is necessary prior to salvation, or being "in Christ".

Already done, before you asked.

 

[Mocking You]

Then Ps 51:5 should be specific to David. Again, you apply to all what David said, but you refuse to apply to all what God Himself said.

No, the Psalms are songs that can be applied to a wide variety of people.

Sanctification is God's act which He did through Christ. And He did it for all.

God does not sanctify everyone. If God sanctifies everyone in the womb, or everyone at some point in their life, what is your understanding of Ephesians 1:13?

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[meshak]

no response to mine Samie?

 

[Samie]

Please address the multiple verses I quoted that show that belief is necessary prior to salvation, or being "in Christ".

You need to know that there are three tenses of salvation: past, present, future.

In the past tense, we were born in Christ. Being in Christ, we can do SOMETHING, like believe, repent, etc., for when yet apart from Him He said man can do NOTHING.

In the present tense, sins committed are not counted against us, those sins having been forgiven on the cross. If fact, God said He remembers sins NO MORE. But the act of sinning reminds one that he is not an overcomer of evil yet. And overcomers will Christ NOT blot out from the book of life.

In the future tense, we will receive eternal life. That's what Paul told the jailer.

Recapping, only those already in Christ are able to believe for apart from Him we can do NOTHING.