ECT Are all our righteousnesses filthy rags or not?

[JudgeRightly]

Amen, it is the heart of men God desires.

Can people love God on their own? Or is it just God loving Himself through us?

 

[Clete]

I am guessing it is more than 90%, but that is just a guess.

It has to be, right?!

I mean what is the bible about if not "Do right and risk the consequence."?

Love God, love your neighbor = good.
Hate God, dispise your neighbor = evil.

Sure, God's standard is perfection because He is perfect, which reminds me as I write this of yet another passage that Cntrysner is required to ignore....

I Peter 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”​

... and since we can't be perfect, we all need a savior, but just because we can't meet God's standard of perfection does not mean that we are completely incapable of doing anything good, right, just or godly. The claim that, "Man can do no good works" is contradicted on probably every single page of the bible!

Clete

 

[Cntrysner]

Can people love God on their own? Or is it just God loving Himself through us?

We love God through obeying His gospel to be coupled in His Son, not on our own love or to say alone. God loves us through His Son. God is the source of love.

 

[JudgeRightly]

We love God through obeying His gospel to be coupled in His Son, not on our own love or to say alone. God loves us through His Son. God is the source of love.

That didn't answer my question.

Can people love God on their own?

Or is God simply loving Himself through us when we love Him?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Who were alive during the time and who are the generation of God, was David alive at that time and did he include himself as none good?. Even Jesus said that he was not good is that not a standard for all before concerning good?

Maybe you think God was wrong when He spoke of the righteous and the wicked?

Ezekiel 21:3 3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.​

If you want to be good you must keep all the commandments and not miss even one.

If that was true, then God would never have instituted the sin offering, since you would need to break at least one commandment in order to keep the other.

 

[Cntrysner]

It has to be, right?!

I mean what is the bible about if not "Do right and risk the consequence."?

If you don't do right and it must be continually what are the consequences you speak of?

Love God, love your neighbor = good.
Hate God, dispise your neighbor = evil.

It is good to do so, is it commanded of you and if you fail at one point, what then. I want you to tell me more about the rewards you receive for doing good. Seriously, what are they for?

Sure, God's standard is perfection because He is perfect, which reminds me as I write this of yet another passage that Cntrysner is required to ignore....

I Peter 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”​

We are holy in Christ, it has nothing to do with our ability, it's by grace. What is the obedience in the verse you quoted?

... and since we can't be perfect, we all need a savior, but just because we can't meet God's standard of perfection does not mean that we are completely incapable of doing anything good, right, just or godly. The claim that, "Man can do no good works" is contradicted on probably every single page of the bible!

Here's Paul again...

Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

How can Paul do good when he says he can't? This is the topic of righteousness.

You are the one that likes the use of ignore and I will not do the same.

 

[Cntrysner]

That didn't answer my question.

Can people love God on their own?

Or is God simply loving Himself through us when we love Him?

God doesn't need to love Himself.

People can love God but it is not that we love God, it's that he loves us.

 

[Cntrysner]

Maybe you think God was wrong when He spoke of the righteous and the wicked?

Ezekiel 21:3 3 And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.​

If that was true, then God would never have instituted the sin offering, since you would need to break at least one commandment in order to keep the other.

Answer this question for me, what must you do to be saved?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Cntry, is it a good thing to do to love God?

Amen, it is the heart of men God desires.

Can people love God on their own? Or is it just God loving Himself through us?

God doesn't need to love Himself.

People can love God but it is not that we love God, it's that he loves us.

Then would you retract this statement please?

Man can do no good works,

Because even you agree that man can love God (doing good) and it not be from Him.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I said...in reality there is only One issue we need to address, that God before the foundation of the world choose all who believe in Christ for reward.
Tell me then about your works of righteousness if I hold a false doctrine.

You are trying to hide one of your false doctrines under another one of your false doctrines?

That will not work.

God did not decide who would be saved and who would be damned before He even created the world.
God has given us the free will ability to change our status from righteous to wicked and from wicked to righteous whenever we choose to do so.
Our future is open and what we do in this life affects where we end up in the final judgment.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Your salvation is in commandments which is works of righteousness and even God's chosen people, Israel, could not do. You are in the same boat as they before the cross and will not avoid the flood when righteousness is revealed at His coming.

Act_13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If it is personal righteousness it is self righteousness you hold to for salvation.

My personal righteousness is no more self righteousness than Noah's righteousness was.

Genesis 7:1 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.​

But, since you do not know righteousness, you can't understand that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

This is a unusual agreement concerning good works. Clete and you genuineoriginal need to have a in-depth conversation about good works. Ask Clete if he believes in the commandment of the good work of water baptism for remission of sins in Acts 2:38.

Clete is responsible for his walk before God and I am responsible for mine.
You are responsible for your choice to reject God's commandments as filthy rags.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It has to be, right?!

I mean what is the bible about if not "Do right and risk the consequence."?

Love God, love your neighbor = good.
Hate God, dispise your neighbor = evil.

Yep. :thumb:

Sure, God's standard is perfection because He is perfect,

Not quite, absolute perfection is the leaven of the Pharisees that Jesus warned His followers about.

Here is God's standard:

Micah 6:8 8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?​

The commandments of the sin offering prove that God does not demand absolute perfection.

which reminds me as I write this of yet another passage that Cntrysner is required to ignore....

I Peter 1:13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”​

Yep. :thumb:

... and since we can't be perfect, we all need a savior, but just because we can't meet God's standard of perfection does not mean that we are completely incapable of doing anything good, right, just or godly.

Because we sin, we need a redeemer, but God does not have a standard of perfection that He demands that we meet.

The claim that, "Man can do no good works" is contradicted on probably every single page of the bible!

Yep. :thumb:

 

[genuineoriginal]

We love God through obeying

That is what the Bible says.

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

But your hatred of people that want to keep God's commandments shows something else.

 

[genuineoriginal]

if you fail at one point, what then.

That seems to be the point where your faith turns into unbelief.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Answer this question for me, what must you do to be saved?

First, you must not give up.

Matthew 24:13 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.​

Second, you must patiently continue doing what is right.

Romans 2:7 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:​

Third, you must proclaim that Jesus is your Lord (and obey Him) and believe in the power of God to raise the dead back to life.

Romans 10:9-10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Fourth, you must not fall into legalism and condemnation of others, but give God thanks in everything you do and acknowledge that others are doing the same, even if they are doing it differently than you are.

Romans 14:5-6 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

 

[Cntrysner]

Israel loved God with works of obedience and God said many were righteous but man's righteousness is not good enough. Now we have the gospel of Christ (Jesus in the flesh said he was not good, only God was...(Luk 18:19) and it is grace revealed through the love of God that sacrificed His dear Son for us. No more of works of righteous or good deeds, they are filthy rags now, but a display of love that the sinless man who is Christ made a way for us that are no good now, as Paul said.... Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

If a man now does any good which we can it is Christ in us and Christ gets the credit, we don't get rewards for good deeds in us we get an inheritance of all created by Christ and set at the right hand of the Father. If we get separate rewards for good then one member of the body will be exalted/rewared above another, none will be exalted above another but Christ.

 

[Cntrysner]

First, you must not give up.

Matthew 24:13 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.​

Second, you must patiently continue doing what is right.

Romans 2:7 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:​

Third, you must proclaim that Jesus is your Lord (and obey Him) and believe in the power of God to raise the dead back to life.

Romans 10:9-10 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

Fourth, you must not fall into legalism and condemnation of others, but give God thanks in everything you do and acknowledge that others are doing the same, even if they are doing it differently than you are.

Romans 14:5-6 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.​

That is a display of legalism.


2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I gave up a long time ago. I surrendered my good works to the righteousness works of Christ.

I refuse water baptism can I still be saved?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Israel loved God with works of obedience

No they didn't.
Israel rebelled against God and did works of iniquity.

Daniel 9:5-6 5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

That is a display of legalism.

You are ignorant and confused.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If you believed that, you would not reject the doctrine, you would not refuse the reproof, you would not deny the correction, and you would not rebel against the instruction in righteousness.

I refuse water baptism can I still be saved?

Ask God whether you can be saved when you refuse to humble yourself before Him and you refuse to obey Him.