(John 19:34) But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
You can’t see the trees because of the forest.
And unfortunately, you are in the wrong forest (open theism)
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ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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(John 19:34) But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
You can’t see the trees because of the forest.
And unfortunately, you are in the wrong forest (open theism)
Learn some grammar. From means since, and since means after. Don't believe me? Look it up.
And how dumb do you have to be to believe that a baby who dies just immediately goes to Hell? Or even Heaven? God gave us a will for a reason. You really think He's going to negate it just because someone died before they were capable of exercising it? No! He will allow them to make that choice before they go either direction. He still leaves it up to them.
And the Book of Life is for Israel, not the Body.
Moron.
elected4ever
New member
You have had to much fruit cake for Christmas.
Is this predictive or illustrative? Dual fulfillment (historical and prophetic)?
God knows the past and present exhaustively. If free will is true and there are genuine contingencies, then EDF of the future is not logically possible, even for an omniscient God. He correctly knows it as possible, not actual, since it is not a possible object of certain knowledge in advance.
You don't get it.
God being a compound unity vs solitary being is not a logical contradiction. If you say there are 3 gods in 1 god or 3 persons in 1 person, then it is illogical. The trinity does not say this and distinguishes nature and personal distinction with no contradiction.
No beginning is not illogical for the uncreated Creator. Logically, something has always existed. Is is matter, God, impersonal, personal?
God is infinite, but there are still logical parameters.
It sounds like you are not aware of the logical and philosophical issues that are not related to an infinite God. You cannot use that mystery or antimony to negate things that can be demonstrated with sound thinking, modal logic, etc.
If Open Theism truly limited God or took away from His glorious attributes, I would be opposing it like you are.
Stay open...something will click...
Muz, With all due respect, you are using human logic. Since when does God have to fit your logical construct. You do realize it is your construct correct?
If you understood his point, you would see its wisdom and truth. We should not cling to traditional views that are philosophically vs biblically influenced if they are not defensible and incoherent.
Using your logic, we could uncritically accept falsehoods about God and His ways.
Just because you do not see it, does not mean Muz is wrong.
themuzicman
Well-known member
Only within created time is this true.
You need to learn the difference between a logical contradiction and a paradox.
Because this is about the nature of creation, not the nature of God.
Muz
themuzicman
Well-known member
Um.. Did you even bother to read the second line of that verse?
let me point it out again:
and all my bones are out of joint
Apparently you have no real answer, but decided to make something up instead.
Muz
themuzicman
Well-known member
It's not actually my construct (this problem has been know since before Christ)
And it's not actually about God. It's about the nature of creation and what God created.
Muz
the Bible is traditional
themuzicman
Well-known member
The bible is God's Word apart from tradition. The fact that the church used both internal and external evidence to discover the Canon does not make it part of tradition.
Muz
Does this mean you are Jewish?
(Phil 4:3) And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Is Paul talking about Israel here?
This is made up, and has no Biblical basis. Where exactly does this chance to believe or not believe take place for these babies? Purgatory?
Let me give you something to think about. In the USA and other western “Christian” countries the infant mortality rate is around 2%. In third world Godless countries, and Muslim countries the infant mortality rate is 12% to 20%.
Makes me laugh every time you do this, thanks.
themuzicman
Well-known member
Tradition is not a problem. Redefining God's Word as the Church's tradition is the problem.
Muz
There is good, divine, true tradition, and specious traditions of men.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How about being the uncreated creator and a creature at the same time? Jesus Christ.
Can someone who's uncreated be the created at the same time? Logical?
themuzicman
Well-known member
It is so blatantly obvious that Psalms 22 prophesizes the crucifixion in great detail. Yet you want to dismiss the verses in chp 22 that are repeated verbatim in the Gospels and instead concentrate on one verse that is not repeated verbatim.
Remember Muz, just because something is not said, does not mean it didn’t happen, and you can’t prove a negative.For example if I asked you if you ever read Robinson Crusoe, you can prove that you did, but it would be impossible for you to prove that you did not read the book.
“All my bones were out of joint” is stated in Psalms 22, but not in the Gospels. However this does not mean that Christ’s bones were not out of joint. You can’t prove they weren’t.
Where there is proof, such as the following, you chose to ignore.
(Psalms 22:14) I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint;
John 19:34) But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
AND
(Psalms 22:18) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
(Matthew 27:35) And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
AND
(Psalms 22:16) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet
(John 20:25) The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
AND
(Psalms 22:1) My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
(Matt 27:46) And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?