ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3

[MaryContrary]

Rape and child molesting are manifestations and results of human sin which separates the creature from the Creator. Evil is the deserved result of wickedness and slavery to sin.

Men rape and molest because they are sinners and held in bondage to Satan.

The only remedy is God's grace, which is not given out wholesale or universally.

That's not what you said. You said:

Belief that God ordains and controls all His creation, does not exempt sinners from accountability and responsibility for their vile actions.

Rapists, rape. Molesters, molest.

Such vile acts can never be attributed to Holy God.

Am I somehow misinterpreting this, Nang? Are you not clearly saying that God ordains and controls all His creation, specifically using rapists and molesters as examples?
Please explain how this does not mean God ordains and controls rapists and molesters?

...God ordains and controls...Rapists...Molesters

Then you can explain how you can follow that statement with this one...

Such vile acts can never be attributed to Holy God.

...and not be a complete loon.

So what you are really railing about, is that I teach the God of the Bible who has not determined to rescue all men from their natural inclinations.

Liar. That's not at all what I'm railing about. And you know this perfectly well. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm railing about. What I'm railing about is your claim that God ordains and controls rapists and molesters. And that He's somehow not responsible for the evil acts he's ordained people to perform nor for actually controlling them while they do those evil things.
What a bunch of poorly disguised, blatant obfuscation. :nono:
Lies, in other words.
Yeah, I suddenly remember you've a bad habit of flat out lying about people when they confront you with your own words.

You think it is illogical to teach that God saves only many, but not all.

Where'd you even get that idea? When did I even mention anything so much as tangentially related to this? What in the wide world of sports are you even talking about?
Stick to the point. The point where you claim God ordains and controls rapists and molesters.

You cannot logically explain how it is, that on one hand God loves all, but He only succeeds in saving some . . .and the rest continue to rape, and molest, despite Christ's (supposed) work on the cross.

Huh? Wha? What's the weather like on your planet?
Who's talking about this? I'm talking about your claim that God ordains and controls rapist and molesters.

How are we to comprehend that the Father (supposedly) wills to save all, and Jesus Christ died for all, and the Holy Spirit supposedly calls all, but in reality, only a remnant of humanity is ever saved?

Gee, I'd really love to answer that with the same ridiculously obvious answer that we've all been throwing at your head over and over again for the last few years...again...but I'd rather not help you to change the subject here.
The subject being your claim that God ordains and controls rapists and molesters.

What is your logical explanation for the reality that most of humanity remains ignorant of the gospel and the name of Christ, and enslaved to sin, death, and the devil?

Where is your defense of your claim that God ordains and controls rapists and molesters?
Seriously. Where? :idunno:

You will find, if you take the time to unemotionally think this through, that both of us are saying blame for rape and molesting falls upon man, not God.

Yeah...except that's not what you're saying. You said God ordains and controls rapists and child molesters. You claimed that, even though He does this, He's somehow magically not responsible but since you're not even addressing that statement I'm wondering if an explanation on how that could possibly work will ever be forthcoming.

"Third party?" Who is mentioning a "third party?" Who would that "third party" possibly be . . . there is only Creator God and the creatures He has made.

Rapist and molesters.
If God ordains and controls rapists and molesters then He commits rape and molestation through them...making them the "third party" here. Which was your claim.
Wow. You ranged so far off into the blue in your attempt to distract from the statement you're trying so very hard not to answer for that you've actually forgotten what we're talking about.

Actually, you are the one attributing evil to God. I am saying evil is attributable to wicked sinners.

Yes, I know that's your claim. I'm asking how in the heck God can ordain and control rapists and molesters without being responsible for rape and molestation He's ordained them to do and for controlling them while they do it.
I really want to ask how the heck rapists and molesters are even responsible, if God has ordained and controlled them to commit these evil acts. But since I can't even keep you on topic on that one point I don't see the point in asking another question yet.

If you understand it well, logically explain it. Why does God not just put an end to all wickedness and its evil results in this world? What is His reason for letting sin continue? How come a (supposed universal) atonement performed by Jesus Christ did not succeed in saving all men?

(I have the biblical answer, but I would be curious to hear how you go about confessing you do not believe God is in control of His creation, but that the inmates are running the asylum.)

You really don't think I'm going to respond to this when you've lied about my motives and my beliefs; and that only in the attempt to blatantly obfuscate the entire topic here...do you?
Seriously?
Because...no. I'm not going to do that.

 

[MaryContrary]

Corrie Ten Boom (of “The Hiding Place”), could not understand why God let her sister Betsie die in the concentration camp they were in during WWII.

They were Dutch, but were in the camp for hiding Jews in their house. While in the camp they preached the Gospel of Christ to the other prisoners. Corrie prayed everyday for God to help Betsie who was sick.

When Betsie died, Corrie had a hard time with it. She struggled for years as to why God let her sister die under such horrible conditions to such evil people.

Then about thirty years later, while evangelizing in China, when thousands of Chinese people were saved, it became clear why God let Betsie die in the concentration camp.

Had Betsie not died, Corrrie wouldn’t be in China, and the thousands of people she saw believing in Christ, would not be doing so.

When bad things like war, murder, rape, etc happen, it doesn’t mean that God isn’t in control. God let’s everything happen for His plan, He is in complete control. When these bad things happen it is impossible for us at the time to understand how, or why God lets it happen.

However, God’s plan is the only acceptable plan where the "end justifies the means".

Luke 13:1-5 (New King James Version)
1 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
:nono:

That aside, Nang is flat out claiming God ordains and controls rapists and molesters. That He rapes and molests people. Are you suggesting that He does this as part of His plan?

 

[tetelestai]

Are you suggesting that He does this as part of His plan?

Good question, Mary, I’ll try to explain.

I am not a Calvinist, therefore I do not believe in unconditional election. The difference between Nang and myself can best be described with the “which came first the chicken or the egg” cliché.

I see belief coming before election, whereas Nang sees election coming before belief (as do most Calvinists). It’s a subject that has been debated for hundreds of years.

Now, lets look at the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. The Roman army killed over a million people. They crucified, burned, raped, tortured, and killed everyone. It was brutal, horrific stuff.

So, did God in eternity past create these Roman soldiers just to do this horrible stuff? I say no. I say these were unbelievers (at the time) who with their free will, committed the atrocities.

However, I also believe that God was in complete control, and not only permitted the soldiers to do what they did, I also believe God on purpose saw to the destruction the way it happened because it was discipline on the Jews for their rejection of Jesus.

Example: One Roman soldier rapes 10 women, kills 25 small children, tortures 15 men. God didn’t create this man specifically to do this stuff, but God made sure that this man was where he was at the specific time to do what he did, even though the man had free will to do or not do what he did.

It’s very hard to understand, let alone explain.

As for refuting Nang about unconditional election, that’s hard to do. Most say it wouldn’t be fair of God to predestinate some as a reprobate, while electing others. Was God fair by choosing Abraham over every other man? Was God fair by choosing the 12 Disciples? How about Paul, a murderer, was God fair in choosing him?

 

[Delmar]

Everything is part of His plan, right down to the movement of every proton, electron, and neutron of every atom and molecule of every living thing. He is in complete control.

AND, we have free will at the same time.

Corrie Ten Boom understood it, but apparently you and all the other OVT’s can’t.

It is true that I don't understand how anything could be completely controlled yet free.

 

[Nick M]

A frootloop? Much nicer than a few others on here but even so, was it my imagination or were you much nicer when you first came here?
If so, "Run away!" Nice isn't necessarily godly, but it mostly seems so and there are good scriptures that support the idea.

Huh? A fruitloop is nice. I didn't call her a godless pervert demon, because she isn't. But what she said was just silly.

 

[tetelestai]

It is true that I don't understand how anything could be completely controlled yet free.

Since we are all fallible, none of us will ever understand it.

I’m sure it would make sense if we were an infallible and eternal Person with perfect attributes though.

 

[MaryContrary]

Good question, Mary, I’ll try to explain.

I am not a Calvinist, therefore I do not believe in unconditional election. The difference between Nang and myself can best be described with the “which came first the chicken or the egg” cliché.

I see belief coming before election, whereas Nang sees election coming before belief (as do most Calvinists). It’s a subject that has been debated for hundreds of years.

Now, lets look at the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. The Roman army killed over a million people. They crucified, burned, raped, tortured, and killed everyone. It was brutal, horrific stuff.

So, did God in eternity past create these Roman soldiers just to do this horrible stuff? I say no. I say these were unbelievers (at the time) who with their free will, committed the atrocities.

However, I also believe that God was in complete control, and not only permitted the soldiers to do what they did, I also believe God on purpose saw to the destruction the way it happened because it was discipline on the Jews for their rejection of Jesus.

Example: One Roman soldier rapes 10 women, kills 25 small children, tortures 15 men. God didn’t create this man specifically to do this stuff, but God made sure that this man was where he was at the specific time to do what he did, even though the man had free will to do or not do what he did.

It’s very hard to understand, let alone explain.

All of that makes sense to me. I can't even say one way or another whether you're on the money here. I certainly have no problem logically with the idea that God can manipulate evil men for His purposes. Certainly He did so with the Pharaoh in Egypt for example. The Pharaoh reacted much as God clearly expected him to, yet it's likewise clear that the Pharaoh could have grown a brain and responded with some actual rationality and God could still have achieved His will in that matter. When you study the varying ways in those passages in which God is described as having "hardened the Pharaoh's heart" you even get a fairly good idea of what we're talking about here, in fact.
What I can't understand is why anyone has difficulty drawing the line at God actually performing an evil act, however. Or even using a person as a tool to perform an evil act (yeah, have to include that specific here so Nang and ilk can't pretend confusion on that point). How is this not, to anyone who holds that God is righteous, very obviously the limit of reasonable supposition?
For example, the evil man you posit here could be manipulated into position by God to illustrate clearly that He’s withdrawn His hand from a people. The man would still be perfectly free to do good or ill as he wills. Even that would be pushing it a bit though, I think. More likely simply withdrawing His influence is enough for all manner of evil to descend on a people and no further encouragement would be required. That’s the position I would lean more toward. Nevertheless, I would at best argue the point while still conceding it’s worthy of debate.
I don't see why anyone would have a problem with attributing concepts of right and wrong to God. Where are we supposed to have gotten this conscience of ours in the first place? To what do we compare our conception of right and wrong in the first place?

As for refuting Nang about unconditional election, that’s hard to do. Most say it wouldn’t be fair of God to predestinate some as a reprobate, while electing others. Was God fair by choosing Abraham over every other man? Was God fair by choosing the 12 Disciples? How about Paul, a murder, was God fair in choosing him?

It's not hard to do. It wouldn’t be fair. More accurately, it wouldn’t be righteous and would utterly discount the idea of free will. Both of which rather make it an impossible act to expect of a righteous God.
And you could go further and point out that there's no rational reason for God to create humanity if it has no free will or if their will is even in any way impinged upon. We must have completely free will or our very creation becomes an act worthy of some Greek loony-god.

:sozo: Zeus created us all and controls our every action!
:liberals: What'd he do that for? For what purpose?
:sozo: Because he's Zeus! And Zeus is awesome!
:liberals: Yeah, but...why create us just to control us?
:sozo: He's Zeus! The mighty Zeus! All things work for the awesomeness of Zeus!
:liberals: But why not just do whatever it is himself? Why does he need tools?
:sozo: Because it's cool! And Zeus is the lord of all things cool! Check out those lightning bolts!
:liberals: Well, that's just dumb. We must have some purpose...
:sozo: Yay, Zeus!
:liberals: Yeah, but...
:sozo: Zeus!
:liberals: Okay, but...
:sozo: Zeus, I say!

It is true that I don't understand how anything could be completely controlled yet free.

Yup. :idunno:

Since we are all fallible, none of us will ever understand it.

I’m sure it would make sense if we were an infallible and eternal Person with perfect attributes though.

Or it could just make no sense because it's irrational. So, you know, there's that.
I'm sure there are plenty of things we cannot understand now. This doesn't seem to me to be one of the things we can't expect to understand, though. In fact, I think it's rather necessary that we be able to understand it. It rather determines our very purpose for existence, after all. Without it we have no reason to do anything, including submitting to God.

 

[tetelestai]

the evil man you posit here could be manipulated into position by God

God does not coerce or manipulate.

God is a respector of man's free will.

See HERE

 

[tetelestai]

It's not hard to do. It wouldn’t be fair. More accurately, it wouldn’t be righteous and would utterly discount the idea of free will.

I agree with you that unconditional election goes against God's perfect righteousness and perfect justice.

My point was that using the "it's not fair" statement to refute it does not work, because we are unable to determine what is fair and what is not fair in God's plan.

When God saw to it that David's child was killed, was that fair to the child?

 

[MaryContrary]

God does not coerce or manipulate.

God is a respector of man's free will.

See HERE

I agree with you that unconditional election goes against God's perfect righteousness and perfect justice.

My point was that using the "it's not fair" statement to refute it does not work, because we are unable to determine what is fair and what is not fair in God's plan.

When God saw to it that David's child was killed, was that fair to the child?

I said "could" and conceded it's debateable. My contention is with the idea that God does evil. So I think we're in agreement on that point at least.
Was it fair for God to confront Egypt and the Pharaoh with His presence, might and glory, knowing they would almost certainly react with hostility? It's clear throughout that part of the story of Exodus that He blatantly provoked the Pharaoh to react irrationally. I say yes. At no point was the Pharaoh forced to be a knucklehead.
As far as David's son, the punishment here was David's. What exactly did God do to the son himself? Took him out of the world. That's it. Not at all unfair.
To illustrate: if God reached out His hand and struck me down five minutes from now I wouldn't complain about it. It would never occur to me to. And anyone pointing at my husband and my friends, claiming God was unfair in doing this because of the impact it had on them is attributing their pain to Him unfairly. He has the right to do this and they should (and do) know that. It's entirely up to my husband and my friends how they feel about it then. Which is why David never seemed to question God's righteousness when his son was struck down.

 

[Nick M]

God does not coerce or manipulate.

God is a respector of man's free will.

The fact that he has to manipulate and coerce is a result of that will. How can you not see that?

He had to execute the first born of Egypt to get Pharoh to let the Hebrews go. And that was following devasting plagues.

 

[tetelestai]

My contention is with the idea that God does evil.

I don't think anyone believes God does evil.

Nang does not believe God does evil either, it's just that unconditional election usually appears as God doing evil to those who are not Calvinists.

To someone who somewhat understands God's plan, the taking of David's child does not come across as God doing evil, but to somone who does not understand God's plan it sure could look like God did something evil by taking an innocent child's life to punish someone else.

Anyway, this all ties back to God being in complete control of everything while we have free will, which shows that open theism is not Biblical.

 

[tetelestai]

The fact that he has to manipulate and coerce is a result of that will. How can you not see that?

He had to execute the first born of Egypt to get Pharoh to let the Hebrews go. And that was following devasting plagues.

Say your child refuses to brush their teeth, you discipline your child, then your child brushes their teeth.

Did you manipulate or coerce your child to brush their teeth?

 

[MaryContrary]

I don't think anyone believes God does evil.

Nang does not believe God does evil either, it's just that unconditional election usually appears as God doing evil to those who are not Calvinists.

Yes. Because you have to say things like "God ordains and controls rapists but He's not responsible for their behavior, they are."
That's irrational.

To someone who somewhat understands God's plan, the taking of David's child does not come across as God doing evil, but to somone who does not understand God's plan it sure could look like God did something evil by taking an innocent child's life to punish someone else.

What makes sense is that God has the authority to take us out of this world any old time He thinks it best to do so and that it's not an act of evil for Him. If it seems evil it's because one lacks perspective and can't see why it's wrong for us to kick people out of the world but perfectly fine for Him do so.

Anyway, this all ties back to God being in complete control of everything while we have free will, which shows that open theism is not Biblical.

If we have free will then He's not in complete control of everything. Simple as that.
This is where Calvinists stumble and are forced to pretend they have an understanding that is completely incomprehensible to fallible human beings like...well, like them. An understanding which we can't reach...even though they understand it...well, that is...
Sheesh. Calvinists don't stumble. They pratfall.

Say your child refuses to brush their teeth, you discipline your child, then your child brushes their teeth.

Did you manipulate or coerce your child to brush their teeth?

Yes. Of course. But we don't call that manipulation or coercion, we call it discipline. Same thing though really but the intent defines it. The intent here is to teach that rebellion will be punished, encourage compliance and instill a habit of brushing your teeth without having to be spanked first.
The point stands regardless, though. If the child did not have free will this entire method of persuasion wouldn't work. They wouldn't have refused to brush their teeth in the first place. Nor would it be understood that they still have the capacity to refuse even after you spank them.

 

[Nang]

Am I somehow misinterpreting this, Nang?

You certainly are.

You are confusing two subjects. You are asserting that the philosophical theory of "Fatalism" is the view of Calvinism. Not so.

Are you not clearly saying that God ordains and controls all His creation, specifically using rapists and molesters as examples?

I am clearly saying that God ordains and controls all His creation, but He does not "use" wicked men to do so. God is so great, that He continually brings good out of the sinful acts of men; fulfilling His purposes and intents despite the sins of men. Sinful men cannot thwart the will and goals of God.

My approach to understanding the purposes of God, is to study the revelation in the Holy Scriptures, of what God intends to be the final result of creating this world. I believe one can only truly comprehend the things of God, by looking at last things, first.

What does the bible teach that God purposes for all eternity? To what end is this creation?

Jesus Christ came proclaiming the Kingdom of Heaven, wherein forgiven men would dwell forever in God's presence. It is by grasping this goal of God, that we can begin to understand the processes performed by God to reach that end.

What is it that God wills? The Father wills to provide the Son with an everlasting inheritance shared with created beings.

God knew before He created, that created beings would fall short of His glory, and by nature, prove to be unworthy of existing in the Godly realm. So before creation, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit covenanted amongst themselves to give access to the heavenlies to a portion of humanity . . .the only way possible . . . Seeing that no created being can ascend into heaven; God the Son volitionally promised to provide many men access to heaven, by descending from heaven as a Perfect Man, representing those who would be made worthy in Him, and through Him, acceptable at the throne of God.

It is much more important to learn of the Mediatorship of Jesus Christ on behalf of created beings, than it is to dwell on the wickedness of those created beings. It is much more edifying to search the bible to learn about the grace of God, than concentrate on the losses due to sin. For the grace of God far exceeds the sinfulness of mankind.

Please explain how this does not mean God ordains and controls rapists and molesters?

God ordains to leave many wicked men to perish in their sins. This is the doctrine of reprobation, which demonstrates Godly justice. The justice of God brings Him as much glory, as does demonstrations of His love and grace. Both love and justice are equally attributes of Holy God.

Also, there is a theodicy involved; in that the process we are living through on this earth, that will eventually end in time to bring about a new heavens and new earth, is a process of permanent and eternal elimination of all darkness and wickedness and evil spirits. For again, to study the ends in order to understand the Godly means, the bible tells us that God purposes His heavenly kingdom will harbor no darkness, sickness, sorrow, sin, or wickedness. This creative process of manifesting all these things, is also a process to eliminate them from the face of God, forever.

Now, it is the sinful human nature of man that prevents him from seeing or seeking understanding of these things. These are spiritual truths, which the natural, corrupt, person cannot grasp. The result is man, in his spiritual ignorance, complains about what he sees around himself, and dwells on the wickedness that fills him, and all others he knows, because he does not have spiritual eyes to look out into the future purposes of God Almighty. All he sees is souls perishing in their sins, and God not stopping their wicked ways. This blind man would wish for a God who would prevent all evil, and save all men from sin. But this natural, corrupt person, also does not realize that wickedness has a measure, and God will not bring an end to sin and death, until that measure has been met, and all sin, wickedness, and death can be totally eliminated, forever. (Study Genesis 15:16, I Thessalonians 2:16, Matthew 23:32, Revelation Chapters 20-22)

And that He's somehow not responsible for the evil acts he's ordained people to perform nor for actually controlling them while they do those evil things.

Ordination does not equate with dictate. Every sinner, sins willfully.

I'm talking about your claim that God ordains and controls rapist and molesters.

It is not my claim. It is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures, that claim:

"The Lord has made all for Himself; yes, even the wicked for the day of doom." Proverbs 16:9

"The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright." Proverbs 21:18

"He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors." Psalm 7:13

"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his powerknown, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of
wrath fitted to destruction." Romans 9:22

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41

One who says they place their trust and faith in the goodness of God, must accept by faith, that God is righteous by proclaiming the above. These are the words and revelation of God Almighty. They cannot be ignored or denied. And the only way to grasp why these things are so, is to concentrate on why Jesus Christ descended from heaven, to do a work, in order to reconcile a people to God and provide access to heaven for them to dwell forever with God.

My advice to you, would be for you to move off your fixation with the crimes of ordained reprobates, and set your eyes upon the grace that was revealed to mankind in the Person of Jesus Christ.

" . . Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound." Romans 5:20b

Nang

 

[Lon]

Huh? A fruitloop is nice. I didn't call her a godless pervert demon, because she isn't. But what she said was just silly.

Agreed, and I said it was nicer, but above that was "morons think they make sense."

 

[MaryContrary]

You certainly are.

You are confusing two subjects. You are blah, blah, blah, blah, blahbitty-blah, blah, BLAH!

Nang

You know...when Nang makes a post longer than one paragraph, it's a good, safe bet she's going to touch on every conceivable point but the actual point under discussion.

In fact, I'm coming around to the idea that Nang can't answer a simple question at all.

Fireman: Ma'am, your hair's on fire. Want me to put that out for you?
Nang: According to your perceptions my hair has ignited and is being consumed by fire. In reality "fire" does not actually exist. Rather, it is a mass of hot gases created by a chemical reaction between a burn able material, my hair in this case, and the oxygen in the air. This chemical reaction produces light and heat, which we merely apply the label "fire" to. So your perception that my hair is "on fire" is false. If we were to study this reaction closely we would discover that the so-called "fire" spontaneously appears, then disappears once all the combustable material has been consumed. Your assertion that my hair is "on fire" must clearly be false then, as nothing can simply appear and disappear in such a manner. You see....
Fireman: Look, just shaddap already.

Will make this as simple as possible and go one step at a time, if necessary.


Does God ordain and control rapists and molesters or not, Nang?


If that's too complicated a question for you, I'll be happy to cut it down some more for you.

 

[Nang]

Will make this as simple as possible and go one step at a time, if necessary.


Does God ordain and control rapists and molesters or not, Nang?

God has ordained all things and controls every event that occurs in the history of the world.

That does not mean that God causes or dictates the wicked acts of rapists and molesters, who commit their crimes willfully.

You are being a silly, unhearing, unbelieving, contentious woman, refusing to recognize the theological answers being given to you.

You insist on focusing on the actions of reprobates, who are abandoned by God because of their vile sins, instead of focusing on the wonderful message of the grace of Jesus Christ, the righteous Man and Savior who resolves these very issues.

Your mind is clamped shut and your spirit appears truly dead and unable to comprehend the good news of God that gives answer to the horrors of sin committed by His creatures.

Your problem, not mine . . .

Nang

 

[MaryContrary]

God has ordained all things and controls every event that occurs in the history of the world.

That does not mean that God causes or dictates the wicked acts of rapists and molesters, who commit their crimes willfully.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blahbitty-blah.

Nang

Can you explain how God can ordain and control a rapist or molester and not cause and/or dictate the behavior He's ordained and controlled?
Because that's the irrational part I was talking about.

So it looks like we've stumbled across of method of interacting with Nang that actually has a chance of eliciting a direct answer.
Awesome.

 

[godrulz]

Corrie Ten Boom (of “The Hiding Place”), could not understand why God let her sister Betsie die in the concentration camp they were in during WWII.

They were Dutch, but were in the camp for hiding Jews in their house. While in the camp they preached the Gospel of Christ to the other prisoners. Corrie prayed everyday for God to help Betsie who was sick.

When Betsie died, Corrie had a hard time with it. She struggled for years as to why God let her sister die under such horrible conditions to such evil people.

Then about thirty years later, while evangelizing in China, when thousands of Chinese people were saved, it became clear why God let Betsie die in the concentration camp.

Had Betsie not died, Corrrie wouldn’t be in China, and the thousands of people she saw believing in Christ, would not be doing so.

When bad things like war, murder, rape, etc happen, it doesn’t mean that God isn’t in control. God let’s everything happen for His plan, He is in complete control. When these bad things happen it is impossible for us at the time to understand how, or why God lets it happen.

However, God’s plan is the only acceptable plan where the "end justifies the means".

God can be providentially in control without being all-controlling/omnicausal. Just because He mitigates evil as much as possible does not mean He ordains, causes, desires it. Some things are not the will of God in any sense. He does not delight in wickedness even if He raises up a standard of righteousness against it.
The deterministic view impugns the character of God, while the free will defense exalts it and has a stronger theodicy without compromising God's sovereignty (which is providential/omnicompetent, not meticulous/omnicausal).