elected4ever
New member
The wisdom of man is foolishness with God.There is no wisdom in making God into a creature of your own design which this particular brand of Open Theism does.
ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 2
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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patman
Active member
I could through in the Settled Theology's age old attempt at making God into Zeus, but what would it matter to you... you hate logic and you want God to be the author of sin.
Who has the bigger burden, I wonder? You or I?
elected4ever
New member
Your brand of Open Theism does more to equate God into a Greek mythical description than anything I have ever heard from Calvinism. I am not a Calvinist by the way.
patman
Active member
Is it the Patman Brand?
For the life of me I can't figure out how I make God sound "greek."
But if you say so... did you figure that out with logic? Just wondering..
elected4ever
New member
Your not that smart so don't flatter yourself. You just one of their groupies.:doh:Is it the Patman Brand?
For the life of me I can't figure out how I make God sound "greek."
But if you say so... did you figure that out with logic? Just wondering..
In some contexts, God unconditionally pronouces judgment and brings it to pass. They are beyond mercy and receive justice.
In other contexts, there is a conditional element and the extension of mercy or judgment depends on their responses to His pronouncements.
God can act, promise, fulfill as He sees fit in His wisdom. Sometimes things are not settled because man's contingent choices affects what is wise to do.
This comes from the guy who denies the Deity of Christ, an essential Christian truth. You do have some Calvinistic ideas.
themuzicman
Well-known member
I think we can safely say that the anti-OVTs have been reduced to meaningless questions and ridiculous arguments, here.
Muz
Muz
AGREED!
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
1 Peter 1
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Is this "corporate election" are did God have foreknowledge concerning these specific individuals in these specific areas?
1: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Is this "corporate election" are did God have foreknowledge concerning these specific individuals in these specific areas?
themuzicman
Well-known member
It states that those who are in those churches are part of the corporate elect. So what?
Muz
Muz
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I don't see where it states that. Just asking.
themuzicman
Well-known member
Name all the individuals that Peter refers to.
Now name all the churches Peter refers to.
Churches are corporate.
Muz
Now name all the churches Peter refers to.
Churches are corporate.
Muz
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I don't see him referring to any churches. He's writing to strangers scattered
because the persecution at Jerusalem. I can't name them, Peter didn't tell me their names.
themuzicman
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Thus, you cannot conclude corporate election. Peter isn't writing to all
of the elect.
themuzicman
Well-known member
No author of Scripture (with the possible exception of three of the gospels, not Luke) is written to all of the elect. Peter probably has a wider audience here than Paul has for ANY of his letters.
Muz
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
themuzicman
Well-known member
So, if you go this route, then only Matthew, Mark, and John even have the possibility of application to you personally.
Muz
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Romans 10:
19: But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20: But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21: But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Romans 11
1: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2: God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3: Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4: But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7: What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
9: And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.
25: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Paul's entire Acts ministry to was gather up this remnant of Israel (which God foreknew) into the Body. The ascended Lord and the Spirit guided Paul throughout Acts and told him where to go & where not to go to gather this remnant.
19: But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20: But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21: But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Romans 11
1: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2: God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3: Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4: But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7: What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded8: (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
9: And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.
25: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Paul's entire Acts ministry to was gather up this remnant of Israel (which God foreknew) into the Body. The ascended Lord and the Spirit guided Paul throughout Acts and told him where to go & where not to go to gather this remnant.
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