Say it again? Everytime you post you say something different. What you originally said was a line had a beginning point. And yes, a timeline would have points in it as I've already shown. You don't have to plot it (that's discovery), but it has to contain the points.
Actually you said that time could not have existed forever because everything that has sequence has a beginning and an end point. I proved that wrong by providing real numbers.
Let me try one more time. I think the hangup for you is not realizing there is no such thing as numbers without a random beginning point.
When we attribute any number to a line, it is a random point (zero). A line doesn't really go negative but in order to show that it progresses bi-directionally negative numbers go one direction and positive numbers go the other (everybody knows this, but it is important for this discussion). In actuallity, the numbers are simply segments of continuation that are random and given random values in either AS or metric givens. So again, to measure anything, our measurements are fabricated for meaningful reference, but there is no real measurement of a line.
God measures, but He Himself is measureless. God knows, but is beyond our limitations. God relates to our random incremental steps of duration, but is not limited to our constraints. We have to go through the succession incrementally, God does not.
Then you should have no problem proving it. 
LOL, roll your eyes all you like. God can easily make Abraham Lincoln 'not exist.
You have to concede here. Yes it is hypothetical, but you should have no problem seeing the truth here if you will apply your God-given mind.
Yes or no: Could God, if He wanted to, wipe all evidence of Abraham Lincoln away? If you say no, you don't understand the power of creation at all.
To deny this is about as silly as denying I can remake a sandcastle or paint over a previous picture. Time is not a constraint when one can do something over. God could easily restart history. Time is meaningless except for our random numbers.
I never said that. Leave the strawman arguments behind. What I said was that if God is outside of time, then that tells us something about him. I tells us that he doesn't make decisions. He didn't decide His fate, or ours. There are things we can logically concluse if God were outside of time.
There is a random space between our random measurements. It has meaning only because of the concept of duration/sequence. It however does not apply to things like 'love' for instance. You could randomly measure for a common understanding, but love is not really measurable and neither is a line.
If I decide to wear the yellow shirt today, it is because I previously bought a yellow shirt. In order to do so, yellow has to be in my repetoire of choices. God has always existed. His nature hasn't changed. When we talk of immutability, it is statements like 'forever the same' given in scripture that we refer to. You agree that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever, but recognize that there is a dichotomy as to how he 'grew in wisdom and stature.' Both statements are true.
However there is no evidence that God is outside of time, and no verse in the Bible that you have been able to point to. So the burden of proof remains in your court as I see it.
You rolled your eyes at the proof, remember?
I do no think He can change the past, but I am anxious to be proven wrong. Let's hear your argument.
Done. If it isn't simple, I've nothing left. Either you get it or your brain-washing was 100% effective. The logic of the fact should be screaming in your brain (I'm optimistic at this point, perhaps I'm too much so).
Relevance? Are you suggesting we don't know the points along a timeline, or along a real number line?
Yes. Random and only culturally meaningful. It does help us apply our knowledge of real numbers, but it is bulit on random values.
Scripture never points to God outside of our timeline. Perhaps you'll do better with logic?
I disagree. I believe scripture is rive with and emphatic on this particular.
:rotfl:
So is it really a Lamb? It is really a book? Of course there are symbols in Revelation -- all over it. Notwithstanding - a vision doesn't have to have symbols either.
Yes. Jesus is really there and called the Lamb. Yes, there is a reckoning called the book. I agree the symbols are there, however I disagree that John figuratively talked with an elder. I believe the conversation was real. There is nothing to suggest he did not. Your understanding of prophetic literature needs some work here.
People talk in visions. I'm not sure what your hanging point is here.
Explain. Daniel was talking with angels and God. John was talking with Jesus, angels, elders. This isn't like a pizza anchovie introduced hallucination. This is a specific vision or real encounter (as I believe). John doesn't mention it being a vision. In Rev 4, he says he entered heaven in spirit.
It literally says that God experiences years (taking it woodenly literal). There is a way to read into this verse that God is not inside of time, but it doesn't flow naturally from this verse.
Woodenly literal this verse speaks of "days" and "years" in relation to God. In what reality do you live in where "years" means outside of time? :chuckle:
Taken figurative, this means that God has a broader timetable (there's that word "time" again) than man due to the length of His existence and patience.
chuckle chuckle chuckle....
Here is one reason I seldom engage you. You are a bit too sarcastic for divine discussion with me most of the time. You come across as disingenuine and not really here but to entrench. This kind of posturing makes it pretty much one-sided all the way around and I continue to try to pierce your purposeful obtusion.
You say stupid things in this obtuse-mode and it skirts meaningful discussion where I'm trying to show what I believe is rational, logical, and presentable.
I don't mind you saying it is a figure of speech, I disagree, but it is a good disagreement point and we can look at other scriptures. In context, it
is talking about patience. However, if taken literally, it means that God literally experienced a thousand years today (or more if figurative). If this is true, His progression is significantly different than mine and therefore, He is not constrained to my random figures that I hold with the majority of the human race, nor does He experience my duration perception.
This might help with the point: When does a day begin? When the sun sets or rises? My clock says it begins at midnight but my atomic clock connection says it isn't the same from day to day. My calendar leaps every 4th year. Our duration marks are random. We have to divide up the world into time-zones set to the sun's movements. We track by the same mechanisms, but the measures are different. It is dark here and sunny in Australia. I'm getting ready for bed, they are getting up. We are still stuck with American standard measurement while the rest of the world has gone metric.
Just like the folks in Australia are not experiencing the same night I am, God does not experience the same time and duration I do.
