ECT Acts 26:22-23 prove MAD to be a lie plus many other verses of scripture.

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
How do you know if saint john w has changed or not?
Maybe he was 1000 times worse before he was saved.

Correct, Mayor.


Once again.....Dodge: Well, I am a rat, but I must be saved, because I am a "cleaner" rat, than my fellow rats(have "changed" more than others).

Wrong standard-others.


Correct standard....memorize:


The righteousness of God.
 

God's Truth

New member
Correct, Mayor.


Once again.....Dodge: Well, I am a rat, but I must be saved, because I am a "cleaner" rat, than my fellow rats(have "changed" more than others).

Wrong standard-others.


Correct standard....memorize:


The righteousness of God.

The saved are not 'rats in Christ'.

No such words from God.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The way he talks to people ,just like those living in the flesh, as the heathens do. Nope, he best get on his knees and talk to God.

So, because I do not talk like you, obviously one who never "lives in the flesh," and obviously never talks like the heathen, and I am not as sweet, and caring as you, and thousands/millions of others,I am not saved.

Does that about sum it up, kid? Really? You are the standard? Because I have not "changed" as much as you/others, I am not saved? Really? Tell me/all of us, that the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for all/every last one of my short comings("come short of the glory of God"), such as not talking like the heathen, such as not being as sweet as you.....................................


Lay it out for us.

You are not part of the "all" here, kid?:

Romans 3:23 KJV For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;



Tell us more about this "subjective" "good news"/gospel, kid, and why it replaces the objective good news/gospel, the cross work and resurrection.

he best get on his knees and talk to God.

Like you do, kid? Tell you what, sport: Why don't we make a laundry list, comparing how much I get on my knees, and talk to God, as compared to you? Then, we can examine how much I give to the cause of Christ, in charitable donations, compared to you. What the h.....Let's make a list of your "good works," over your life, comparing them to mine......Let's flush it all out, to determine who is saved, you or me, or is "more saved," "more changed."

What do you say, sport? Would you like a shot at the title? Lethal weapon saint John W
 

DAN P

Well-known member
That is about as far away from context as you can possibly get !



H. A. Ironside, in refuting the teachings of Bullinger, cited this passage:


If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. (1Timothy 6:3-5)

Here is Ironside's application of the passage to hyperdispensationalism:


One would almost think that this was a direct command to Timothy to beware of Bullingerism! Notice, Timothy is to withdraw himself from, that is, to have no fellowship with, those who refuse the present authority of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. Where do you get those actual words? Certainly in the four Gospels. There are very few actual words of the Lord Jesus Christ scattered throughout the rest of the New Testament. Of course there is a sense in which all the New Testament is from Him, but the apostle is clearly referring here to the actual spoken words of our Saviour, which have been recorded for the benefit of the saints, and which set forth the teaching that is in accordance with godliness or practical piety. If a man refuses these words, whether on the plea that they do not apply to our dispensation, or for any other reason, the Spirit of God declares it is an evidence of intellectual or spiritual pride.12

Ironside is saying that when Paul warned Timothy against those who do not teach doctrine in agreement with "the words of the Lord Jesus," since those words are found in the gospels, Paul is warning against teachers like Bullinger and his hyperdispensational descendants.

Furthermore, the book of Hebrews claims that God has spoken "to us in His Son" (1:2) and claims Jesus' words were confirmed to us by the apostles: "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will" (Hebrews 2:3, 4). That should settle the matter—Jesus' words and the words of His apostles are both considered from Jesus and binding on the church. But this does not work with hyperdispensationalists because to them the book of Hebrews is not for the church either. For example, Les Feldick will only apply Hebrews to those Jews under a different gospel than Paul preached:


Paul's writings to the Gentiles (the Church) are the thirteen books of Romans through Philemon. Although Paul also wrote the book of Hebrews, he wrote it to the Jewish believers who had been saved under the gospel of the kingdom, the teaching of the twelve apostles of the circumcision (Jews). Hebrews was not written to the Gentiles.13

So, according to that thinking, what Hebrews says about the matter can be ignored safely because it was for a different "church," and today we can safely neglect "so great a salvation" because it is no longer being offered.


To Whom Were the Gospels Written?


Another huge problem for the teaching that Jesus' words and the gospels are not for the church is that of the intended audience of the gospel writers. Take Luke for example:

Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word have handed them down to us, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; (Luke 1:1-3)

Theophilus is a Greek name, not a Jewish name. If the gospels were only for the Jews, as the hyperdispensationalists claim, why was Luke writing to a Gentile? Furthermore, when was Luke written? It was written after the end of Acts, probably between 60 and 62 A.D. In his commentary on Luke, Robert Stein writes, "The earliest and latest possible dates for the writing of the Third Gospel are quite clear. The earliest would be immediately after the events of Acts 28 (i.e., after Paul's arrest and two-year stay in Rome.)"14 This means that Luke wrote to a Gentile after Paul was imprisoned as recorded in Acts 28 (if not later). So Luke was written not to the supposed "Jewish Church" that supposedly existed under a gospel different from Paul's, but to the church as it was after the supposed withdrawal of the offer of the kingdom and change of dispensations.

But why would Luke write a gospel to the church as it was after the end of Acts and apply Jesus' teachings to that church? Jesus' teachings supposedly were no longer authoritative by the time Luke wrote his gospel. Why did Luke write to Theophilus? He says this: "So that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught" (Luke 1:4). The gospels were given and applied to the church. The gospel writers assumed that the teachings of the head of the church, Jesus Christ, are for the church. They are not merely an historical curiosity for those who want to know what the kingdom "church" would have been like had the Jews not rejected it.

This is seen by this passage in Matthew: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19). Hyperdispensationalists annul Jesus' teaching for the church and think they are thereby "rightly dividing" the Bible.

Consider this passage in Mark: "And He said to them, ‘Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him; because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?' (Thus He declared all foods clean.)" (Mark 7:18, 19). Hyperdispensationalists claim that the "Jewish church" until the kingdom offer was withdrawn, was still under the law. But Mark's parenthetical clarification tells us that Jesus declared, to Jews, that all foods are clean. Despite this, hyperdispensationalist Stam says, "There is no indication of any revelation to them that the death of Christ had freed them from observance of the Mosaic law."15 So, for whom exactly was Jesus' teaching as recorded in Mark? If Jesus indeed declared all foods clean, He could not have done so for the Jews whom Stam says were still under the law even after the cross, and if He had not given this teaching through Paul, it was not binding on the church either (according to their scheme of things). So Jesus declared foods clean to no one at all. He was wasting His words.

Hyperdispensationalists tell us that until mid-Acts (or in Acts 28 depending on which one you listen to), the 12 disciples intended to set up the kingdom because they still hoped that Israel as a whole would accept the kingdom offer. They consider the law to still be in affect: "This is why [because Jesus asked the Father to forgive them] as the book of Acts opens we are still in a period of time when the dispensation of Law is in effect and God's people, Party #2, is still Israel."16 But consider what Peter said to those who were saved from their sin on the Day of Pentecost: "And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, ‘Be saved from this perverse generation!'" (Acts 2:40). Why would Peter tell these believing Jews to be saved from that perverse generation (Israel that had rejected Messiah) if Peter believed that Israel might soon accept the offer and the kingdom would be established just then? The reason believers needed to be "saved from them" was that the "perverse generation" already rejected the Messiah and His kingdom. Peter saw them as the enemies of Messiah, whom they had rejected and crucified. Luke/Acts leaves open the saving of Israel as a nation (see Acts 3:19-21). But it is clear that this will not happen until after the times of the Gentiles: "and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (Luke 21:24).


The Great Commission is Rejected


Hyperdispensationalists treat the Great Commission with disdain and claim that any Christians who believe that they should seek to fulfill it are fools. Stam has an entire chapter entitled, "The So-called Great Commission." He writes, "What a mistake to call this "the great commission" and "our marching orders"! How pathetic to see sincere believers vainly trying to carry out this commission and these orders!"17 According to this thinking, taking the Great Commission in Matthew as authoritative would create "legalism."18 In this system, one error leads to another. Since Jesus' teachings are not binding on the church, then this: "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20) would be legalistic. It would be a legalistic sin on par with the Galatian heresy to teach the church to obey the head of the church, Jesus Christ! But the Great Commission specifically says that it is the "nations" (ethnos) to which the disciples were sent to disciple, baptize and teach. Stam claims that this commission was only to be applied by the disciples in Israel at Jerusalem and included the idea of "baptismal salvation."19 Since they do not believe that water baptism is for Christians, they detach the Great Commission from the church, claim that Peter preached baptismal salvation because of Acts 2:38, and thus create two different gospels, the one Peter was commissioned to preach and a different one that no one knew about until Paul.

But doesn't Jesus promise "I am with you even unto the end of the age"? No problem for hyperdispensationalists: "Neither does the promise ‘Lo, I am with you even unto the end of the age,' present any difficulty for, remember, this present dispensation is a parenthetical period of grace with was then still a secret ‘hid in God' (Eph. 3:9)." So we are safely rid of Jesus' teachings, baptism, the need to go to the nations, and for good measure we are rid of "repentance for forgiveness of sins" (Luke 24:47) because, wouldn't you know it, that is "only for the Jews." Feldick says: "And yet for most people who are putting out the plan of salvation they say, ‘You have to ask God to forgive you of your sins, you have to repent.' Well I can't find any of this in Paul's letter [sic] to the Church Age believers. It's not in here."20 For Feldick, if Paul did not teach it somewhere between Romans and Philemon, it is not for us and not part of the gospel. Never mind that Paul commended the Thessalonians for turning from idols to serve the living God (1Thessalonians 1:9), which surely sounds like repentance. Shortly I will show from Acts that Paul taught repentance—including changing one's behavior—and taught it to Gentiles.


http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue108.htm


Hi and you took all that space and NEVER explained what Hyper-dispensation is OR Ulta-dispensation as some call it OR what somw call MODERATE DISPENSATIONALISM , Nor why the Great Commission is rejected and this means THAT they had no handle on it either !!

dan p
 

dodge

New member
Hi and you took all that space and NEVER explained what Hyper-dispensation is OR Ulta-dispensation as some call it OR what somw call MODERATE DISPENSATIONALISM , Nor why the Great Commission is rejected and this means THAT they had no handle on it either !!

dan p

dan, rejecting the great commission is pretty much the same as rejecting Jesus ! Not a wise move,dan.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
dan, rejecting the great commission is pretty much the same as rejecting Jesus ! Not a wise move,dan.


Hi and why do use know see what the GREEK word ETHNOS means and then decide !!

Here is what ETHNOS means as it is a TRANSLITERED word !!

#1 HEATHEN
#2 RACE
#3 GENTILE
#4JEWISH NATION

Turn to John 11:50 and it reads , in English that the WHOLE NATION perish not !!

NATION / ETHNOS is it Gentile there or is it JEWS ? ETHNOS here means JEWISH NATION !!

In verse 51 is reads , " that Jesus should DIE FOR THAT Gentiles !!


How about John 11:48 and it says Romans shall come and take away both our PLACE and GENTILES , NOT , it reads come and take away our PLACE AND JEWISH NATION !!

And Matt 28:19 HAS NOTHING to do with NATIONS / GENTILES but to reach there Jewish people as Acts 2:39 as the Jewish people were scattered all over the Roman EMPIRE !!

So get with the program as I am CORRECT !!

dan p
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Hi and why do use know see what the GREEK word ETHNOS means and then decide !!

Here is what ETHNOS means as it is a TRANSLITERED word !!

#1 HEATHEN
#2 RACE
#3 GENTILE
#4JEWISH NATION

Turn to John 11:50 and it reads , in English that the WHOLE NATION perish not !!

NATION / ETHNOS is it Gentile there or is it JEWS ? ETHNOS here means JEWISH NATION !!

In verse 51 is reads , " that Jesus should DIE FOR THAT Gentiles !!


How about John 11:48 and it says Romans shall come and take away both our PLACE and GENTILES , NOT , it reads come and take away our PLACE AND JEWISH NATION !!

And Matt 28:19 HAS NOTHING to do with NATIONS / GENTILES but to reach there Jewish people as Acts 2:39 as the Jewish people were scattered all over the Roman EMPIRE !!

So get with the program as I am CORRECT !!

dan p





Yes, it meant the Jewish nation in those cases. But the mission was going to all other nations, which Christ already started in contact like in Jn 4, and the visit of the Greeks.

There is also the complete contact of Israel to find as many missionaries as possible before going to the other nations. That is clear. It is not contact exclusively with Israel because there was a separate offer to Israel to restore the kingdom. Doing so would have brought retribution from Roman forces, and did against Judaism's zealots.

Finally, there is the play on the word 'ethne' in Mt 21. There is another nation now working in the vineyard. There is only one qualification: that they actually do the work. It does not matter what DNA they have anymore. The myth that ancestry mattered was countered as early as Jn 1, where the 'sons' are simply born 'of God.'
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Yes, it meant the Jewish nation in those cases. But the mission was going to all other nations, which Christ already started in contact like in Jn 4, and the visit of the Greeks.

There is also the complete contact of Israel to find as many missionaries as possible before going to the other nations. That is clear. It is not contact exclusively with Israel because there was a separate offer to Israel to restore the kingdom. Doing so would have brought retribution from Roman forces, and did against Judaism's zealots.

Finally, there is the play on the word 'ethne' in Mt 21. There is another nation now working in the vineyard. There is only one qualification: that they actually do the work. It does not matter what DNA they have anymore. The myth that ancestry mattered was countered as early as Jn 1, where the 'sons' are simply born 'of God.'


Hi and the MISSIONARIES are from the 12 tribes of Israel AS referenced in Revelation !!

If you are talking about Matt 21:43 SHALL BE TAKEN from them and given to the LITTLE F;OCK AS written in Luke 12:32 !!

The Geek word GIVEN is also in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and that Kingdom will be given to the 12 apostles and they will come from the EAST and from the WEST to sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven and also called the Millennium !!

dsan p
 
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