ECT A Simple Question For the Preterists

[Jerry Shugart]

When was the following prophecy fulfilled?:

"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east" (Zech.4:2-4).​

Come on, don't let us down because we all need a good laugh!

 

[Interplanner]

What if Israel is 'made new' in the new covenant that now exists? In that case, it is a general description of the victory of Rev 20, right before the NHNE. In the same sense, the 'nations against it' are all the evil powers of all description in this life.

You are a good laugh to me when it is transparently clear that the meaning of the Bible does not hinge on one OT passage that the NT doesn't bother with, while it bothers with 2500 others that you never talk about.

 

[Interplanner]

why is there not one blasted validation of future activity with a nation of Israel in any doctrinal NT letter about the future: Rom 2, 8, 11, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3, I Jn 2, Acts 26? It should be perfectly clear in every single one of them.

I will accept nothing less.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What if Israel is 'made new' in the new covenant that now exists? In that case, it is a general description of the victory of Rev 20, right before the NHNE. In the same sense, the 'nations against it' are all the evil powers of all description in this life.

So you think that the feet of the Lord have already stood on the Mount of Olives and He has already defeated all of those who came against Jerusalem?

You are a nut case!

 

[Interplanner]

So you think that the feet of the Lord have already stood on the Mount of Olives and He has already defeated all of those who came against Jerusalem?

You are a nut case!

Not at all. I said that that is a description of that event, which is the last thing before the NHNE which is something yet to come. I said that the NT tells us there is the 'Israel' of all believers and all of them are harassed on the last day but the enemy is defeated and this order destroyed as God makes the NHNE.

Please reserve biting on your nuts until you know that they are not metal ones.

 

[Danoh]

Not at all. I said that that is a description of that event, which is the last thing before the NHNE which is something yet to come. I said that the NT tells us there is the 'Israel' of all believers and all of them are harassed on the last day but the enemy is defeated and this order destroyed as God makes the NHNE.

Please reserve biting on your nuts until you know that they are not metal ones.

You have yet to prove this "'Israel' of all believers" assertion of yours.

Let alone, through the following "manner."

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

You can neither have, nor expect, the following three-fold principle, absent of the above practice...

17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that [a] they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 [c] Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[Interplanner]

Hebrews (because 99% of the benefit of those 'Hebrews' believers...is what all Christians enjoy!)
Gal 6's Israel of God
Rom 9's "us"
numerous OT quotes, at which D'ists are HORRIBLE users. JohnnyW didn't even mention one, let alone use one, in his 'knockout' list of validating Israel the race/nation.

When you realize what the end of Rom 9 is saying about "us" as Israel from what it said in v6 etc., and that this is the same as Gal 3 on the 'seed of Abraham' (those in Christ the Seed), it is quite clear that throughout Rom 9-11 he only means the nation/race in a few cases because they disbelieve in that generation. He does not mean to validate any nation/race promise going forward.

I will not accept any validation of the nation/race until my usual list on the end of time can be shown to provide such a validation in EACH AND EVERY PASSAGE. D'ist's pretend it is everywhere in the NT. I can't find it in even one of them. There is no place where any apostle that I know of sounds like he is making an exception for the nation/race as such, no matter what happens to believers. I know at least 10 places where he would be if D'ists were right.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

why is there not one blasted validation of future activity with a nation of Israel in any doctrinal NT letter about the future: Rom 2, 8, 11

Romans 11:26-27 speaks of the following:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

The "fathers" of those who will have their sins forgiven were none other than the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so common sense dictates that those who will have their sins forgiven will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

And there has never been a time when all of the physical descendants from the house of Judah and the house of Israel have all had their sins forgiven so the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 has not yet been fulfilled!

 

[john w]

JohnnyW didn't even mention one, let alone use one, in his 'knockout' list of validating Israel the race/nation.

The name is "John," sodomite Basil Sheldon, and your continued "domestic partner" proposal to me, "come on," with your cute, effeminate "JohnnyW," I reject. I dig chicks, James 2:3 KJV Sheldon, not "happy" "men"(loosely employed here), like you, sodomite.

Can you dig it, prissy? Good.

 

[Interplanner]

The name is "John," sodomite Basil Sheldon, and your continued "domestic partner" proposal to me, "come on," with your cute, effeminate "JohnnyW," I reject. I dig chicks, James 2:3 KJV Sheldon, not "happy" "men"(loosely employed here), like you, sodomite.

Can you dig it, prissy? Good.

'you will not bear false witness.'

It's also pretty ridiculous to change topics.

 

[john w]

'you will not bear false witness.'

It's also pretty ridiculous to change topics.

No, you are a sodomite,"coming on to me," with your cute little James 2:3 "Johnny" quip, "happy" boy, as my name is john, Basil Sheldon.


I will repeat: I dig chicks, so I am not interested in your sodomite perversion.

Am I clear, gboy? Good. And stuff your "'you will not bear false witness" scam, as devil children have no authority to allegedly quote scripture.

 

[john w]

'you will not bear false witness.'

It's also pretty ridiculous to change topics.

Wow, woosy-you stumped me with that "change topics" shut down. That's all you have, Simon? Weighty.

 

[john w]

JohnnyW didn't even mention one, let alone use one, in his 'knockout' list of validating Israel the race/nation.

Yes, I did, wicked sodomite, as do not confuse your demonic intoxication, with any alleged failure on my part, you lying twit.

 

[Interplanner]

No, you are a sodomite,"coming on to me," with your cute little James 2:3 "Johnny" quip, "happy" boy, as my name is john, Basil Sheldon.


I will repeat: I dig chicks, so I am not interested in your sodomite perversion.

Am I clear, gboy? Good. And stuff your "'you will not bear false witness" scam, as devil children have no authority to allegedly quote scripture.

Do you have a question about an actual text? You're a fool on everything else.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, I did, wicked sodomite, as do not confuse your demonic intoxication, with any alleged failure on my part, you lying twit.

The earlier list was all OT. Show me otherwise. The NT ones you quoted later were not those which are quoting the OT, so again we are lead to believe that the D'ist understanding replaces the apostles about the OT.

 

[Interplanner]

Romans 11:26-27 speaks of the following:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

The "fathers" of those who will have their sins forgiven were none other than the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so common sense dictates that those who will have their sins forgiven will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

And there has never been a time when all of the physical descendants from the house of Judah and the house of Israel have all had their sins forgiven so the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 has not yet been fulfilled!

But it doesn't speak of that even as you think. It says, using other passages, that that new covenant has already come in Christ; it takes away sins.

The actual passages quoted are Is 59 and 27, but that is minor. It is minor because Hebrews spent 2 chapters interpreting Jer 31 on the new covenant, and it is now, it is the atonement, and it is the same things about redemption that all believers in Christ enjoy. If it has anything particular about it, it is that in that generation, belief in it could also have stopped the madness of the zealot revolution.

What good does it do for the 99% to not have their sins forgiven while some spot in the future does? That's not the 'Israel' he is speaking of (since 9:6).

The "fathers" were told in Acts 13 that the resurrection of Christ is the arrival of what was promised to Israel; it is how we know we have justification from sins. That is what the purpose of Israel was always about.

 

[john w]

The earlier list was all OT. Show me otherwise. The NT ones you quoted later were not those which are quoting the OT, so again we are lead to believe that the D'ist understanding replaces the apostles about the OT.

I already did, you habitual liar, child of the devil.

 

[john w]

Do you have a question about an actual text? You're a fool on everything else.

"text" you muse, loser, who answers almost every question on "texts" with "fulfilled in Christ." You're a poser, fraud, and no one "seeks" your guidance on any "text," you biblical magician, sorcerer.

 

[Interplanner]

I already did, you habitual liar, child of the devil.

I don't recall any, and if any of the 2500 come to your great mind, please do tell me about them. There's only 2500 so it might be kind of hard to find.

 

[Interplanner]

An example of a text would be Mt 3:16. Or Acts 13:32.

I didn't know that even trying to define a text would turn you again into your coarse, privatized, worthless sense of humor.