11-year-old Gang-Rape Victim: Should She Be Able To Legally Abort?

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I thought I made myself clear Aaron. I am NOT for a blanketed abortion policy where the mother's life isn't taken into consideration.

I'll repeat one of the many questions you're dodging: If an adult female claims that she will take her own life unless granted an abortion, is her abortion then moral?

Should legislation block her from legally obtaining one?

Your fellow leftists used that claim in order to get abortion legalized, so of course there would have to be more than just a "claim".

How about we not talk about the LESS than 1% of abortions that are done because of rape, and talk about the 99% that are done out of convenience, you know, the ones that your party platform says "that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."
http://www.lp.org/platform

Or is reality something you have a difficult time dealing with Aaron? (if there was ever a rhetorical question, that would be it).



Quote:
Being that the US has never legislated your proposal before, even when the US was adamantly pro life, I have no fear of nutcases like you passing something like that.

Completely irrelevant. Homosexuality isn't going to be criminalized but it doesn't stop your incessant yapping over it.

Who brought up homosexuality? But since you're on the topic, it's hardly irrelevant Aaron, as I've shown in a year old 225,000 view thread that the abortion movemement and homosexual movement are one in the same.


Quote:
And yes, if I had voted for legalizing homosexual marriage and dope in the latest Washington State election, I would have been voting to "approve" of those behaviors.

And if you support legal abortion, your approve of abortion.

Right?

In less than 1% of the 1,200,000 that are done in the US yearly.

Does that make me a "moral relativist" Aaron? If so, I'll take it up with God on my judgment day.

 

[quip]

Abortion, even in the case of rape, remains an act of aggression against an innocent child, and should never be LEGAL.

What of the act of aggression against the raped child....would you further aggrieve said aggression by forcing an 11yr old to give birth? (All because your moral idealism considers a fetus...a "child"?)

 

[WizardofOz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I thought I made myself clear Aaron. I am NOT for a blanketed abortion policy where the mother's life isn't taken into consideration.

So, you're pro-choice with exceptions.

Got it.

How about we not talk about the LESS than 1% of abortions that are done because of rape

I understand your desire to change the subject. Although, you should be used to being exposed as a complete hypocrite by now.

In less than 1% of the 1,200,000 that are done in the US yearly.

Good job rationalizing your moral relativism, champ :thumb:

Does that make me a "moral relativist" Aaron? If so, I'll take it up with God on my judgment day.

In the meantime you might want to hesitate accusing others of being what you clearly are; a hypocrite, a moral relativist, pro-choice, a homosexualist, et al.

Oh, and you can officially drop the "legalization is approval" bunk as well.

Unless you are ready to admit that you approve of abortion, that is.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I guess I missed your answer on this question that I posted 2 pages ago Aaron.

"So aside for voting for a pro abortion candidate and a pro abortion political party, who would legislate pro abortion laws if elected, in your own little imaginary world, you would require that 11 year old girl who was BRUTALLY raped by 20 filthy barbarian ragheads to carry the baby to term even if it meant her killing herself and hence the baby?"

Come on Aaron, you can give an honest answer for once in your life.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

The only time when abortion can ever be considered acceptable is if the mother's life is in danger. At this point it is a case or prioritising which life to save and I believe that the onus should always be on the mother.

Conception by rape is absolutely no justification for murder no matter how one tries to frame it.

 

[WizardofOz]

I guess I missed your answer on this question that I posted 2 pages ago Aaron.

Should I repeat all the questions you've dodged?

And I did address it

"So aside for voting for a pro abortion candidate and a pro abortion political party, who would legislate pro abortion laws if elected, in your own little imaginary world, you would require that 11 year old girl who was BRUTALLY raped by 20 filthy barbarian ragheads to carry the baby to term even if it meant her killing herself and hence the baby?"

Threats of suicide are not justification to legalize abortion. If someone threatens to kill themself, they need therapy not an abortion.

I'll repeat some of the questions you're dodging: If an adult female claims that she will take her own life unless granted an abortion, is her abortion then moral?

Should abortion be a legal option for a suicidal adult female? If you denied her and she killed herself and her baby, are you a double murderer?

 

[quip]

The only time when abortion can ever be considered acceptable is if the mother's life is in danger.

This one always amuses me. I understand the practical implications of what you're stating here yet, the moral implications (pro-life varieties) do not change simply because the mother's life is in danger. Rather this indicates that the morality of abortion lies in the nature of pregnancy and not on the moral status of the fetus....as such, the mother always trumps.

 

[quip]

As a matter of fact, this entire thread can be summed up by this shift in moral perspective!

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The only time when abortion can ever be considered acceptable is if the mother's life is in danger.

Which accounts for less than 1% of the 1,200,000 abortions done here in the US annually.

At this point it is a case or prioritising which life to save and I believe that the onus should always be on the mother.

Conception by rape is absolutely no justification for murder no matter how one tries to frame it.

Absolutely not, but the question is: Does God justify abortion in some rare circumstances?

I'm thinking that the answer to that would be yes, considering He allows close to 1,000,000 miscarriages a year to occur here in the US.
http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm

 

[WizardofOz]

Absolutely not, but the question is: Does God justify abortion in some rare circumstances?

I'm thinking that the answer to that would be yes, considering He allows close to 1,000,000 miscarriages a year to occur here in the US.
http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm

:doh:

You've officially hit rock bottom, politically, ethically and theologically.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
"So aside for voting for a pro abortion candidate and a pro abortion political party, who would legislate pro abortion laws if elected, in your own little imaginary world, you would require that 11 year old girl who was BRUTALLY raped by 20 filthy barbarian ragheads to carry the baby to term even if it meant her killing herself and hence the baby?"

Threats of suicide are not justification to legalize abortion. If someone threatens to kill themself, they need therapy not an abortion.

Hence my use of the word "encourage" numerous times in this thread and others.

Just so that we're straight on your views here, do you believe that under no circumstances should abortion be allowed via the law even in the case of saving the mother's life?

I'm going to keep hounding you until I get a straight answer Aaron.

I'll repeat some of the questions you're dodging: If an adult female claims that she will take her own life unless granted an abortion, is her abortion then moral?

Should abortion be a legal option for a suicidal adult female? If you denied her and she killed herself and her baby, are you a double murderer?

You've moved the goal post around enough Aaron. Besides, the word "moral" in a thread started by a "if it feels good do it" pagan Libertarian is the epitome of an oxymoron.

 

[Angel4Truth]

i said yes, for the life of the mother reason - which should not require a clinic visit, but a doctor visit, like it was before abortion was legal.

I consider this medical reason, not rape reason. An 11 year olds body is not developed enough for childbirth.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

:doh:

You've officially hit rock bottom, politically, ethically and theologically.

So says the guy who votes for a God hating poltical party that consists primarily of atheists and pagans like yourself.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

i said yes, for the life of the mother reason - which should not require a clinic visit, but a doctor visit, like it was before abortion was legal.

I consider this medical reason, not rape reason. An 11 year olds body is not developed enough for childbirth.

2 out of 3 woman disagree with you Aaron.

Why don't you ask your wife (cough cough) and let us know how she responds?

 

[WizardofOz]

Hence my use of the word "encourage" numerous times in this thread and others.

Heck, what's the point of criminalizing any abortion? We should simply encourage women to keep their babies.

Why criminalize any act if a little encouragement is all that's needed?

Recriminalized homosexuality? Nah, just encourage people to "stay straight"

Honestly, you could debate yourself.

Just so that we're straight on your views here, do you believe that under no circumstances should abortion be allowed via the law even in the case of saving the mother's life?

I'm going to keep hounding you until I get a straight answer Aaron.

Um, first time you asked it and I've answered it before. I don't dodge questions like you keep doing.

Never intentionally kill the developing human. If the mother will die without intervention, remove the developing human and make every effort to save it.

There are always two patients. You're only concerned with one.

 

[WizardofOz]

i said yes, for the life of the mother reason - which should not require a clinic visit, but a doctor visit, like it was before abortion was legal.

I consider this medical reason, not rape reason. An 11 year olds body is not developed enough for childbirth.

So electively abort prior to any complication?

I posted in the other thread: List of youngest mothers

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Heck, what's the point of criminalizing any abortion? We should simply encourage women to keep their babies.

Why criminalize any act if a little encouragement is all that's needed?

Recriminalized homosexuality? Nah, just encourage people to "stay straight"

Honestly, you could debate yourself.

Come on Aaron, we both know that legalization (i.e. decriminalization) doesn't mean approval.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92862

Or at least you and Jr. seem to think so.

Um, first time you asked it and I've answered it before. I don't dodge questions like you keep doing.

Never intentionally kill the developing human. If the mother will die without intervention, remove the developing human and make every effort to save it.

There are always two patients. You're only concerned with one.

Actually, according to a former Surgeon General, no mother has ever died, but if there is a chance of death, "save that life":

"While he was United States Surgeon General, Dr. C. Everett Koop stated publicly that in his thirty-eight years as a pediatric surgeon, he was never aware of a single situation in which a freeborn child's life had to be taken in order to save the life of the mother. He said the use of this argument to justify abortion in general was a “smoke screen.”...

When two lives are threatened and only one can be saved, doctors must always save that life.
If the mother has a fast-spreading uterine cancer, the surgery to remove the cancer may result in the loss of the child's life. In an ectopic pregnancy the child is developing outside the uterus. He has no hope of survival, and may have to be removed to save his mother's life.

These are tragic situations, but even if one life must be lost, the life that can be saved should be. More often than not, that life is the mother's, not the child's. There are rare cases in later stages of pregnancy when the mother can't be saved, but the baby can.

Again, one life saved is better than two lost.

To be pro-life does not mean being pro-life just about babies. It also means being pro-life about women, who are just as valuable as babies."
http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/8

Ok, I'm done with this smokescreen of yours Aaron. I'll continue to vote for pro God political parties that espouse decency and life.

Let's all hope and pray that Aaron and Jr. eventually come around and do the same.

 

[Son of Jack]

I don't think I agree. I don't think Legal = Perfectly Acceptable.

What do you think legal means in this particular context?

Relative as in having exceptions? I think I'd fall into that category.

So, you wouldn't say life is always sacred?

 

[Doormat]

Before you go moving the goal posts any further Aaron, let's put a face behind your story.

SWEDEN: 20 Muslim invaders gang rape 11-year-old Swedish girl in public bathhouse

I don't believe that is the eleven year old rape victim, so if you want to use an eleven year old rape victim's face as a political football, perhaps you should actually use the face of the real victim. The same picture appears in 2005 story on FrontPage Magazine in a story titled Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden. It doesn't appear to be the picture of an eleven year old, and she was brutally beaten but the girl in the public bathhouse was not, if I am not mistaken. You can Google it yourself; I will not provide a link because of the offensive, vulgar, curse filled statements made about Swedish women that were quoted in the article.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I don't believe that is the eleven year old rape victim, so if you want to use an eleven year old rape victim's face as a political football, perhaps you should actually use the face of the real victim. The same picture appears in 2005 story on FrontPage Magazine in a story titled Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden. It doesn't appear to be the picture of an eleven year old, and she was brutally beaten but the girl in the public bathhouse was not, if I am not mistaken. You can Google it yourself; I will not provide a link because of the offensive, vulgar, curse filled statements made about Swedish women that were quoted in the article.

My my, aren't you the anal one.

The topic has been put to rest (until Aaron rises in the morning with another brilliant rant of his).
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3548797&postcount=77