10 things I'm right about, whether you agree or not.

Mystery

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In his book Schizophrenia Revealed - From Neurons to Social Interaction (W.W.Norton, New York, 2001), Michael Foster Green, Ph.D., a professor in the UCLA Department of Psychiatary and Behavioral Sciences, and chief of the treatment unit of the Department of Veterans Affairs Mental Illnes Research, Education and Clinical Center, does his best to promote the idea that so-called schizophrenia is biological. He nevertheless makes the following admissions: "...we do not yet have an adequate understanding of schizophrenia... a specific brain abnormaility in schizophrenia has remained elusive. ...schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed by a brain scan" (pages 4, 6, and 95).
 

thecortexrules

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Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at Seacoast Mental Health
Center in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, informs us: “First, no biological etiology
[cause] has been proven for any psychiatric disorder…in spite of decades of
research.…So don’t accept the myth that we can make an ‘accurate
diagnosis’

Psychologist Bruce Levine, Ph.D., concurs: “Remember that no biochemical,
neurological, or genetic markers have been found for attention deficit disorder,
oppositional defiant disorder, depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, compulsive
alcohol and drug abuse, overeating, gambling, or any other so‐called mental illness,
disease, or disorder.”

• Charles E. Dean, M.D., says that people are “convinced that the origins of mental
illnesses are to be found in biology, when, despite more than three decades of
research, there still is no proof…The absences of any well‐defined physical causation
is reflected in the absence of any laboratory tests for psychiatric diagnoses—much in
contrast to diabetes and many other physical disorders.

• “There are no tests available for assessing the chemical status of a living person’s
brain.” – Elliot Valenstein, Ph.D.

• Psychiatrist David Kaiser adds this: “Patients [have] been diagnosed with ‘chemical
imbalances’ despite the fact that no test exists to support such a claim, and... there is
no real conception of what a correct chemical balance would look like.”

• “Biopsychiatrists have created the myth that psychiatric ‘wonder’ drugs correct
chemical imbalances. Yet there is no basis for this model because no chemical imbalance
has ever been proven to be the basis of a mental illness,” wrote Ty C. Colbert, a clinical
psychologist.


These are all just QUOTES of OPINIONS. I have YET to see a single STUDY, and that's because there *aren't* any. I find it interesting that a lot of the ppl who are doing this unsubstantiated pontification are psychologists, who stand to lose money if talk therapy is ultimately replaced by psychopharmacology (I personally do not think that will ever occur, because there are a lot of non-biologically caused things that ppl need to deal with). However, being outside the fields of psychiatry and psychology, this does seem to be a bit of a turf war.

If you don't mind answering a question: Why is it that so many religious fundamentalists are so against the idea that certain behavioral issues are the result of a sub-cellular brain abnormality? I've seen it before, but can't say I "get" it.

Katherine
 

thecortexrules

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In his book Schizophrenia Revealed - From Neurons to Social Interaction (W.W.Norton, New York, 2001), Michael Foster Green, Ph.D., a professor in the UCLA Department of Psychiatary and Behavioral Sciences, and chief of the treatment unit of the Department of Veterans Affairs Mental Illnes Research, Education and Clinical Center, does his best to promote the idea that so-called schizophrenia is biological. He nevertheless makes the following admissions: "...we do not yet have an adequate understanding of schizophrenia... a specific brain abnormaility in schizophrenia has remained elusive. ...schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed by a brain scan" (pages 4, 6, and 95).

Once again, migraine cannot be diagnosed by a brain scan. MRIs are obtained in migraine patients to rule out OTHER things. Are you claiming that migraines, seizures in patients with normal brain scans (yeah, they happen), and other neurological disorders which cannot be correlated with a radiographic abnormality don't exist, or is this simply a prejudice against so-called "mental" illnesses?

Katherine
 

thecortexrules

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An interesting take on dualism, btw:

In a very important recent book outlining progress in scientific studies of the human pre-frontal cerebrum, the distinguished Russian-American neuropsychologist, Elkhonon Goldberg1, discusses the problem of understanding that brain structures and processes are intimately bound up with personality:

“This raises” he says “the broad issue of general public awareness of cognitive impairment. Although rhetorically, the educated public understand today that cognition is a function of the brain, this abstraction often fails to inform specific, real-life situations. As a result, Cartesian dualism is alive and well when it comes to everyday encounters with brain-damaged people. This naïve dualism is evidenced, even at the level of healthcare policy-making and health coverage, when physical health is treated seriously whilst so-called mental health is given short-shrift.


Everyday public attitudes betray a sharp division between physical and non-physical symptoms and between physical and non-physical body organs. Problems with vision or hearing, limp weakness on one side of the body, will unfailingly be perceived as physical and will engender sympathy and readiness to help. The bodily nature of these symptoms will be immediately grasped but, curiously, even so, mostly people will be very slow to attribute these problems to the brain.


By contrast, patients with higher order cognitive impairments are often denied the sympathy accorded people with physical infirmity, and are treated instead in moralistic, almost puritanical terms. Forget the hapless criminals. Consider the common situation of a demented elderly individual whose life has been an example of civic responsibility and moral rectitude. Now she is old and very forgetful. Having diagnosed early dementia, I am trying to explain the implications of my findings to the eager family members. I tell them that their mother suffers from amnesia but her forgetfulness is caused by brain shrinkage; that she cannot help it; that it's likely to get worse and that they have to be patient with their loved one. The family members listen intently; they nod; they seem to understand - and then comes an irate comment: “But how come I give her breakfast in the morning and she comes back asking for her breakfast again?” When I encounter this lack of understanding I feel like tipping my hat to my friend Oliver Sacks, who has done more than anyone else to enlighten the general public about the effects of neurological injury on cognition. I urge people to read “The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat”.


But if the neurological nature of impaired memory, perception or language usually can be grasped by the general public, the executive deficit caused by frontal lobe injury almost never is grasped. Point to the patient's impulsivity, volatility, indifference, lack of initiative, and the common response will be “This is not his brain, this is his personality!” This is total retreat three-and-a-half centuries back to Cartesian dualism, as if “personality” were an utterly extracranial phenomenon. And the notion of “personality”, of course, is something that, on a par with an apple pie and spring water, carries moralistic, righteous connotations. If you were born into an honest family and went to a good school, then how dare you not have an upright personality!


It is my hope that this book will put “personality” and related expressions of the mind where they belong, inside the brain, so to speak, in the eyes of the general public. “By helping accomplish this, the book will help correct the unintended public insensitivity and sometimes outright cruelty, toward the most devastating of all forms of brain damage, the damage to the frontal lobes.”

Katherine
 

thecortexrules

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The evidence is in my posts. Read it or get lost, you pervert.

LOL...you're funny. Calling someone a 'pervert' for refuting your opinions by posting studies? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I can tell I've won an intellectual battle when my opponent resorts to this kind of behaviour. :loser:

Katherine
 

Minerva

New member
LOL...you're funny. Calling someone a 'pervert' for refuting your opinions by posting studies? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I can tell I've won an intellectual battle when my opponent resorts to this kind of behaviour. :loser:

Katherine

The worst thing you could do is underestimate Mystery by his one-liner comments.

he's very insightful, intelligent, and knowledgeable.
 

Mystery

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The worst thing you could do is underestimate Mystery by his one-liner comments.

he's very insightful, intelligent, and knowledgeable.
:chuckle:

Yep, one of my biggest faults is having hit and run posts, but sometimes it gets hectic around here.
 

thecortexrules

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The worst thing you could do is underestimate Mystery by his one-liner comments.

he's very insightful, intelligent, and knowledgeable.

I'm only "underestimating" that one post...calling someone a "pervert" for refuting one's OPINIONS with studies is downright stupid and shows there isn't much more the person has to say. If he wants to counter with his own studies, he's free to do so, as well as point out what the flaws are in the ones I presented. That's the way debate is. *shrug*

Problem is, many right wingers presume that everyone who doesn't agree with them cannot be intelligent or knowledgeable (as Ann Coulter says, if Democrats had any brains, they'd be Republicans...which I think is a wonderful commentary on the right-wing view that everyone who doesn't toe their imaginary line is "stupid" or "ignorant" or "uninformed"). Typical for fascism, though...the "elite" who are "in the know" are supposed to rule over the "ignorant, uninformed" masses.

Katherine
 

thecortexrules

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I always have to chuckle at Ann Coulter. She is the typical darling of the misogynist right, a woman who has plenty of everything and got that way by catering to the male-privilege crowd. Kinda like being a "kept woman", IMO, but supporting the right of women to do that if they want to is part of being a free, pluralistic, capitalist society. She's also good for exemplifying the "if anyone disagrees with me they MUST be stupid" narrow-minded attitude of her ilk.

Katherine
 

Morpheus

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Is the boredom factor the main thing? Or do you sometimes also think, "That sounds fun but God has told me that's a sin, and I love God, so I will listen to Him in this matter and not follow it, even though it's kinda tempting right now"?
No, boredom is not the only factor. It was the cleanest one. I figure it's not good to go very far with descriptions of what I go through when I'm tempted in a place like TOL. There are children around.

As for the second part of your question, no. What I think to myself is, "I'm not interested."

Because salvation is complete and total surrender of that aspect of self. It is a literally a death of self, and a whole new life. Salvation is having His life.

Before we were in Christ, we were not free to choose whether or not to be in bondage to sin. We were it'e prisoner. However, by God's grace and the power of the gospel (the message of Christ), God placed before us life and death, and gave us a choice. When we choose to to accept Christ's sacrifice and recieve His life, we die to our old self, and we are no longer living for ourselves. We have been bought by His blood, and we are not our own. We do not have free will to no longer belong to Him. We have free will in many areas, but not regarding who we are, or whose we are. We have died with Christ and our life is hidden with Him, in God. We belong to Him. Jesus said that those who are His will never perish. If even a single one could perish, then Jesus would be a liar, and we both agree that He is not.
John 14:15-24
15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Jesus directly ties behavior to salvation. Not that we "earn" salvation, but that our works are evidence of our faith and love of him, and those things are the basis of salvation. Verse 24 makes it quite evident that those who do not love Jesus will not obey his teaching, but verse 23, as well as several others here, state clearly that anyone who loves him will obey his teaching. Everyone falls short, but if we really don't care whether or not we are sinning then we have made our choice. What husband says to his wife, "I love you." and then beats her, or even just ignores her or chases other women? His behavior is evidence that he is a liar even though he may not even recognize his hypocrisy.

And yes, Paul struggled against sin his entire life.

1 Corinthians 9:19-27
19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
The race analogy comes up again in Hebrews 12

1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."
We are called to struggle against sin, in ourselves first, then in all humility, since we ourselves are weak, we help others in their struggle against sin in their lives.

So the conclusion to all this is that behavior (deeds) and faith are inseparable.
James 2:14-26
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.


20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
 

BillyBob

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I always have to chuckle at Hillary Clinton. She is the typical darling of the misogynist libs, a woman who has plenty of everything and got that way by catering to the male-privilege crowd. Kinda like being a "kept woman", IMO, but supporting the right of women to do that if they want to is part of being a free, pluralistic, capitalist society. She's also good for exemplifying the "if anyone disagrees with me they MUST be stupid" narrow-minded attitude of her ilk.

Katherine

I agree.
 

Balder

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Mystery, I have two questions:

1. Are you aware of the field of research called psychoneuroimmunology?

2. Are you familiar with the well-documented phenomenon of dissociative personality disorder (something I'm sure Szasz would call a "made up disease") actually resulting in individuals who exhibit different immune responses depending on which personality is presently dominant? In other words, a person can be allergic to dogs, or test positively for type II diabetes, when one personality is "in control," and these symptoms disappear entirely when that personality is not in control. How would you explain this in your paradigm?
 

Balder

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Do you mean, can we think ourselves sick?

If so, let me get back to you on this.

Essentially, yes. But I'm not just talking about subjectively described symptoms of physical discomfort. I'm talking about measurable physiological changes in the organism based on the "state of mind" -- including drastic changes, such that a person can move between having a physical disease and not having it, or needing glasses or not needing them, or being physically allergic to something or not, etc, as the dominant personality structure changes.
 
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