ECT 1 Timothy 6:3-4 contradicts MAD...

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing...." 1 Timothy 6:3-4

The only way to attempt to reconcile this, would be to try and discredit the Book of 1 Timothy.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing...." 1 Timothy 6:3-4

The only way to attempt to reconcile this, would be to try and discredit the Book of 1 Timothy.
Mid-Acts dispensational Bible study recognizes the importance of the mystery of Christ revealed to the apostle Paul as doctrine particular to the church in the present dispensation (Rom 16:25, Col 1:25-27, Eph 3:2-4).
While most Bible students would make the most important division in the Bible to be between Israel and the Church or the Old and New Testaments, mid-Acts Bible study teaches the most important distinction in your Bible to be the right division between God’s Mystery purpose, “kept secret since the world began”, and God’s Prophecy purpose, which had been “spoken since the world began” (Acts 3:19-21 vs. Rom 16:25).
Understanding the mystery of Christ revealed to Paul for us clears up the theological confusion that is created by blending Prophecy and Mystery doctrines. Some controversial doctrines resolved by Pauline right division include:
Baptism
Faith and Works
Sign Gifts
Salvation
God’s Will
Tongues
Jesus instructs us to identify Paul as our pattern (1 Tim 1:16; 1 Cor 4:16; 1 Cor 11:1). A failure to operate according to the Lord’s revelations to Paul often leads to frustration with denominational traditions, including:
Tithing
Prayer
Communion
Great Commission
Confession
Sabbaths and Holy Days
If you have been confused by some of these doctrines or frustrated by empty Church tradition, consider the Lord’s revelation to Paul and get some answers (2 Tim 2:7).
Basic teachings of Mid Acts Dispensational right division
– Jesus, in his earthly ministry, ministered to the circumcision. (Rom 15:8, see here)
– [bold]The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul[/bold] (Col 1:25-26, 1 Tim 1:16, and here)
– Prophecy and mystery are different (Acts 3:19-21 vs Rom 16:25)
– Peter and Paul taught different messages (Peter prophecy, and Paul mystery: See here)
– Prophecy has been interrupted. (See here)
– The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of the grace of God (See here and here)
– Israel’s Church and the Church, the body of Christ, are different. (See here)
 

Danoh

New member
"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing...." 1 Timothy 6:3-4

The only way to attempt to reconcile this, would be to try and discredit the Book of 1 Timothy.

YOU think he is referring to Matt. thru John.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Notice - NOT in accordance with the principle of where and how Christ had been named, or preached before Paul BUT in accordance with a principle that is found BOTH in that which was written prior to Paul concerning Christ being preached one day among the outcasts of Israel, and in Paul's preaching of Christ among the Gentiles.

Because these principles are the same within both preachings of Christ, you misconstrue that the preaching is also the same within both.

But Paul's preaching of Christ (at least within my understanding of A9D, or Mid-Acts Dispensationalism) is this side of....

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known: 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Thus, those of Paul's various assertions as to...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

...are in light of that change - not in ignorance of it.
 
Last edited:

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Mid-Acts dispensational Bible study recognizes the importance of the mystery of Christ revealed to the apostle Paul as doctrine particular to the church in the present dispensation (Rom 16:25, Col 1:25-27, Eph 3:2-4).
While most Bible students would make the most important division in the Bible to be between Israel and the Church or the Old and New Testaments, mid-Acts Bible study teaches the most important distinction in your Bible to be the right division between God’s Mystery purpose, “kept secret since the world began”, and God’s Prophecy purpose, which had been “spoken since the world began” (Acts 3:19-21 vs. Rom 16:25).
Understanding the mystery of Christ revealed to Paul for us clears up the theological confusion that is created by blending Prophecy and Mystery doctrines. Some controversial doctrines resolved by Pauline right division include:
Baptism
Faith and Works
Sign Gifts
Salvation
God’s Will
Tongues
Jesus instructs us to identify Paul as our pattern (1 Tim 1:16; 1 Cor 4:16; 1 Cor 11:1). A failure to operate according to the Lord’s revelations to Paul often leads to frustration with denominational traditions, including:
Tithing
Prayer
Communion
Great Commission
Confession
Sabbaths and Holy Days
If you have been confused by some of these doctrines or frustrated by empty Church tradition, consider the Lord’s revelation to Paul and get some answers (2 Tim 2:7).
Basic teachings of Mid Acts Dispensational right division
– Jesus, in his earthly ministry, ministered to the circumcision. (Rom 15:8, see here)
– [bold]The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul[/bold] (Col 1:25-26, 1 Tim 1:16, and here)
– Prophecy and mystery are different (Acts 3:19-21 vs Rom 16:25)
– Peter and Paul taught different messages (Peter prophecy, and Paul mystery: See here)
– Prophecy has been interrupted. (See here)
– The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of the grace of God (See here and here)
– Israel’s Church and the Church, the body of Christ, are different. (See here)

The passage hinges on "the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul made a clear point to honor the very words Jesus spoke. MAD discredits them. Paul quoted Jesus, "and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.""(1 Corinthians 10:24)
Knowing how smart Paul was it really logical to think Paul did not know the difference between the words Jesus spoke, which by the way do "accord with godliness", and words of the Holy Spirit through men?
As you pointed out a great deal theologically hinges on this.
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
YOU think he is referring to Matt. thru John.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Notice - NOT in accordance with the principle of where and how Christ had been named, or preached before Paul BUT in accordance with a principle that is found BOTH in that which was written prior to Paul concerning Christ being preached one day among the outcasts of Israel, and in Paul's preaching of Christ among the Gentiles.

Because these principles are the same within both preachings of Christ, you misconstrue that the preaching is also the same within both.

But Paul's preaching of Christ (at least within my understanding of A9D, or Mid-Acts Dispensationalism) is this side of....

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known: 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Thus, those of Paul's various assertions as to...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

...are in light of that change - not in ignorance of it.

Nothing you said convinces to disregard "the sound words of the Lord Jesus Christ".
 

Danoh

New member
The passage hinges on "the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul made a clear point to honor the very words Jesus spoke. MAD discredits them. Paul quoted Jesus, "and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.""(1 Corinthians 10:24)
Knowing how smart Paul was it really logical to think Paul did not know the difference between the words Jesus spoke, which by the way do "accord with godliness", and words of the Holy Spirit through men?
As you pointed out a great deal theologically hinges on this.

You are wrong again - MOST MADs hold to and take some time TOGETHER once each month to drink of the "wine" and eat of the "bread" as one in remembrance of Him.

While, it is expected all do, every day; each in their way.

In this, though the issues in Romans 14, for example, are no longer; its principle as to how to view one another as to different understandings, remains.

When that operative principle is practiced, that is - "for whatsover is not of faith is sin" Rom. 14:23.

For when different understandings are not only turned into a means of baiting others into endless strife with them (out of inward, inresolved issues, actually), but repeatedly, then such individuals are to be ignored, if not put in check, and eventually just cut off, Rom. 16:17.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing...." 1 Timothy 6:3-4

The only way to attempt to reconcile this, would be to try and discredit the Book of 1 Timothy.
It cannot be speaking of the Lord in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John since we know no man after the flesh, even Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
"Form of sound words"
"Wholesome words of Jesus Christ"

found in Romans-Philemon
:up:

Yep! That's the testimony of our Lord and of His prisoner Paul!

2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
 

Danoh

New member
Nothing you said convinces to disregard "the sound words of the Lord Jesus Christ".

To take His Words to heart in disregard of Romans to Philemon IS "to disregard "the sound words of the Lord Jesus Christ".

Matthew 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Where in Matthew thu John is all that Paul lays out throughout 1 Corinthians that he bases on the following assertion?

1 Corinthians 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The passage hinges on "the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ". Paul made a clear point to honor the very words Jesus spoke. MAD discredits them. Paul quoted Jesus, "and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.""(1 Corinthians 10:24)
Knowing how smart Paul was it really logical to think Paul did not know the difference between the words Jesus spoke, which by the way do "accord with godliness", and words of the Holy Spirit through men?
As you pointed out a great deal theologically hinges on this.

"the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ.....to honor the very words Jesus spoke".-Jimmy
____________________________________________________

No, Jimmy, Paul is referring to the words that Paul spoke, as given to him, via revelation, by the risen, glorified, seated "Lord from heaven"(1 Corinthians 15:47 KJV), not the words the Lord Jesus spoke, while on earth, which were God the Father's words. The apostle Paul, "the apostle of the Gentiles"(Romans 11:13 KJV), and thus your/our apostle in this dispensation, speaks the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ.


If Paul is not referring to what he/Paul spoke, as the Lord Jesus Christ's spokeman in this dispensation, in the Timothy passage you cite, then......

Acts 20:35 KJV

I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.


...show us, anywhere, outside of Romans-Philemon, where the Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words, where "he said:"

It is more blessed to give than to receive


Show us "the words of the Lord Jesus," not a paraphrase,"principle,".........


It is more blessed to give than to receive

=the words.

"to honor the very words Jesus spoke."-Jimmy

Show us where the very words Jesus spoke," were:

It is more blessed to give than to receive





Thanks, Jimmy.


Your friend, "Angel" saint John W
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Has Jimmy ever printed out some business cards for you from the back seat of his Firebird?


Saint John W the Great
Stock Trader Extraordinaire
Mentor of Gordon Gecko.
555-7777

You kill me! However, I would modify it, as follows:

Saint John W the Great, AKA Bud Fox, Jr.
Dewy, Cheatem, and Howe Investments, Inc.
No. 7 Penny Stock Lane
Mailzone Boiler Room RIPOFF
Bugtussell, AR
Stock Trader Extraordinaire
Mentor of Gordon Gecko and/or Jethro "Nought Nought Seven" Bodine
1-800-SUCKERS
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
You kill me! However, I would modify it, as follows:

Saint John W the Great, AKA Bud Fox, Jr.
Dewy, Cheatem, and Howe Investments, Inc.
No. 7 Penny Stock Lane
Mailzone Boiler Room RIPOFF
Bugtussell, AR
Stock Trader Extraordinaire
Mentor of Gordon Gecko and/or Jethro "Nought Nought Seven" Bodine
1-800-SUCKERS

You beat all!
You have more titles than a bank that services auto loans.
 
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