Yom Kippur

WeberHome · Oct 13, 2016

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Yom Kippur is not a day to be happy. It's a day to afflict oneself; which Webster's defines as causing distress so severely as to cause persistent suffering and/or anguish. (Lev 16:29, 16;31, 23;27, and 23:32)

The penalty for failure to cause oneself persistent suffering and/or anguish is cutting off. (Lev 23:29)

Why is Yom Kippur such a depressing day? Well; that's not too hard to figure out.

There's a goat involved in Yom Kippur commonly called a scapegoat. However, it's not really a scapegoat, in reality it's an escaping goat; viz: a fugitive.

Every sin the people ever committed is ceremoniously placed on the goat and it's then turned loose. Well; that right there is a very bad thing for Jews because in order for their sins to be pardoned, it's necessary for the sin-bearing goat to be put to death and burned on the Altar. So what? Well; I'll tell you so what. It means that the people's sins go unpunished; viz; the sins placed on the goat are still on the books hanging over the people's heads like a sword of Damocles and one day will be brought to justice. Now if that isn't reason enough to be depressed, then I give up.

Q: Why every sin the people ever committed?

A: Because there is not even one offering in the entire Levitical catalogue that suffices to delete the people's sins. The only thing that those sacrifices obtain for them is a reprieve; which is a temporary delay, not a permanent fix. In other words: forgiveness in the Old Testament acquits no one; Old Testament forgiveness merely puts justice on hold. (Ex 34:7, Rom 3:25-26, Heb 10:1-4)

NOTE: Some people, unfamiliar with goats, think that leaving one out in a wilderness place to fend for itself is a death sentence. No; far from it. Goats are survivors. They can get by in environments that quite a few other species would find quite disagreeable. And though the Jews were in a wilderness place, there was vegetation enough for the herds. (Ex 34:3)

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chair · Oct 13, 2016

Another example of an ignorant Christian explaining Judaism.

WeberHome · Oct 13, 2016

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chair said:
Another example of an ignorant Christian explaining Judaism.

I wouldn't presume to explain Judaism. It's too complicated. I much prefer to discuss the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

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daqq · Oct 13, 2016

Matthew 9:2-6
2 And behold, they brought to him a paralytic man, lying on a mattress: and Yeshua seeing their faith said to the paralytic, Child, be of good cheer; your sins are αφιενται sent away.
3 And behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, "This man blasphemes", (for only the Kohen Gadol was vested with the authority from on High to send away sins, and that was only once in the year, at Yom Kippurim).
4 And Yeshua perceiving their thoughts said, Wherefore think you ill in your hearts?
5 For which is easier to say? "Your sins are αφιενται sent away"? or to say, "Arise, and walk"?
6 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority upon the earth to αφιενται send away sins, he then said to the paralytic, Arise, take up your mattress, and go to your house!

John 5:9-14
9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his mattress, and walked: and on the same day was the Shabbat.
10 The Yhudim therefore said to him that was cured, It is the Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your mattress.
11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said to me, Take up your mattress, and walk!
12 Then asked they him, What man is it who said to you, Take up your mattress and walk?
13 And he that was healed knew not who it was: for Yeshua had withdrawn himself, a multitude being in that place.
14 Afterward Yeshua found him in the temple, and said to him, Behold, you are made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you, (because your twin goat always returns from the dry-arid places with all your sins upon its mortally wounded head: be sure your sins will find you out, Num 32:23).

chair · Oct 14, 2016

WeberHome said:
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I wouldn't presume to explain Judaism. It's too complicated. I much prefer to discuss the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

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Where did you pick up the depression on Yom Kippur idea?

WeberHome · Oct 14, 2016

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chair said:
Where did you pick up the depression on Yom Kippur idea?

Lev 16:29, Lev 16:31, Lev 23:27, and Lev 23:32

FYI: It is both illegal and curse-worthy for Jews to be joyous at any time during Yom Kippur.

● Lev 23:29 . . For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people

● Deut 4:2 …You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.

● Deut 5:29-30 …Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you

● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.

Note the grammatical tense of the curse. It's present rather than future indicating that the curse is immediate-- no delay and no waiting period.

I tend to believe that curses are accumulative. In other words: every year that Jews fail to afflict their souls on Yom Kippur, they add another curse to the indictment against them.

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TweetyBird · Oct 14, 2016

chair said:
Another example of an ignorant Christian explaining Judaism.

Isn't that the truth ....

TweetyBird · Oct 14, 2016

Nonon said:
That's the first time I have heard it explained like that. I've always liked the scapegoat to Christ Jesus. And John the Baptist to a high priest. My reasoning is that John said that Jesus took up the whole worlds sin after being baptized. And I know that the scapegoat took up the sins of israel corporately. So Jesus took up the worlds sin corporately (since gentiles are included in it). And John is a descendant of Aaron by both parents. And only a high priest can do that transaction.

So for me the scapegoat solidifies the main point that Jesus took up the worlds sin at his baptism. He did go into the wilderness right after much like the scapegoat, but I feel that is an irrelevant detail. Jesus carried the sins of the world on himself throughout his whole ministry. At his crucifixion he was judged for those sins he never committed himself. Therefore all sin in the world has been utterly destroyed for all time.

I like to also reference Hebrews 10:1-4 when talking about the scapegoat since it's mentioned in there "annually".

I don't really have much else to add to this thread.... lol. Just giving you another perspective. I think we may all hold different views on it lol.

The following corresponding verses from the Mosaic Law compared with the NT, show exactly how this feast was fulfilled in Christ, fully and completely, including the scapegoat.

[Leviticus 16 corresponds with Leviticus 23:27-32]

Lev 16:3 Thus shall Aaron [the High Priest] come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.

Heb 9:11,12 But Christ being come an high priest... Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

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Lev 16:12,13 And he shall take a censer full of burning coals...and bring it within the veil: And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat...

Heb 6:19,20 ...which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

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Lev 16:15,16 Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the veil, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat: And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins...

Heb 9: 13,14,23,24 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? ... It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these... For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

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Lev 16:21,22 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

Isa 53:6,11 ...the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all...for he shall bear their iniquities.

Heb 9:28; 13:12,13 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many... Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

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Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

Heb 10:10,12,14 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

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Luke 24:44-48
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.

WeberHome · Oct 14, 2016

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TweetyBird said:
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

I'm going to deliberately misquote that rule in order to bring out an important point,

"For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to acquit you, that you may be absolved from all your sins before the LORD."

No; that particular atonement neither acquits nor absolves. Let me explain.

It's said that a bell can't be un-rung. That's right; bells can be silenced, but their rings cannot be returned once they leave the bell.

Were someone to fall in a mud puddle, they can wash the mud off, but it is impossible to undo their fall because that part of their mishap is historical; they cannot turn back the clock.

What I'm saying is: Lev 16:30 de-contaminates the people, sanitizing them for worship; but does nothing to undo their history. Ergo: the people's sins remain on the books; hanging about their necks like the proverbial albatross. Is it any wonder then why Yom Kippur is a day of sorrow rather than a day of cheer?

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chair · Oct 15, 2016

WeberHome said:
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Lev 16:29, Lev 16:31, Lev 23:27, and Lev 23:32

FYI: It is both illegal and curse-worthy for Jews to be joyous at any time during Yom Kippur.

● Lev 23:29 . . For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people

● Deut 4:2 …You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.

● Deut 5:29-30 …Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you

● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.

Note the grammatical tense of the curse. It's present rather than future indicating that the curse is immediate-- no delay and no waiting period.

I tend to believe that curses are accumulative. In other words: every year that Jews fail to afflict their souls on Yom Kippur, they add another curse to the indictment against them.

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The verses in Deuteronomy are completely irrelevant. The one in Leviticus refers to fasting on Yom Kippur. And we fast- but there is room for joy on Yom Kippur. You'd be surprised.

TweetyBird · Oct 15, 2016

WeberHome said:
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I'm going to deliberately misquote that rule in order to bring out an important point,

"For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to acquit you, that you may be absolved from all your sins before the LORD."

No; that particular atonement neither acquits nor absolves. Let me explain.

It's said that a bell can't be un-rung. That's right; bells can be silenced, but their rings cannot be returned once they leave the bell.

Were someone to fall in a mud puddle, they can wash the mud off, but it is impossible to undo their fall because that part of their mishap is historical; they cannot turn back the clock.

What I'm saying is: Lev 16:30 de-contaminates the people, sanitizing them for worship; but does nothing to undo their history. Ergo: the people's sins remain on the books; hanging about their necks like the proverbial albatross. Is it any wonder then why Yom Kippur is a day of sorrow rather than a day of cheer?

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It is impossible undo one's sins even if they are in the new covenant, believe on Jesus Christ and have been forgiven of all sin, and stand before God as His righteousness in Christ. The sin still happened and cannot be taken back. It is atoned for fully, once and for all in the blood of Christ, but it does not just disappear as if it did not happen. The effects of our sins still remain and have to be dealt with on many occasions regardless of how holy one is in the sight of God.

That said, there is a lot of misunderstanding regarding the Mosaic Law. The shed blood of animals atoned for sin and gave forgiveness, per God. Lev 4, 5

WeberHome · Oct 15, 2016

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chair said:
there is room for joy on Yom Kippur. You'd be surprised.

Nothing the Jews do surprises me. They've been ignoring God's wishes for centuries, and doing whatever they want even right from the get-go.

● Deut 9:24 . .You have been rebelling against the Lord since the day I became acquainted with you.

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chair · Oct 16, 2016

WeberHome said:
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Nothing the Jews do surprises me. They've been ignoring God's wishes for centuries, and doing whatever they want even right from the get-go.

● Deut 9:24 . .You have been rebelling against the Lord since the day I became acquainted with you.

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Maybe you ought to spend less time worrying about what we do or think.

beameup · Oct 16, 2016

"Judaism" was completely "recreated" following the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. - true Mosaic Judaism ceased to exist at that time. However, according to prophecy, the Temple will be rebuilt and true Mosaic Judaism will be reinstituted prior to Messiah's return.

Ben Masada · Oct 16, 2016

beameup said:
"Judaism" was completely "recreated" following the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. - true Mosaic Judaism ceased to exist at that time. However, according to prophecy, the Temple will be rebuilt and true Mosaic Judaism will be reinstituted prior to Messiah's return.

Tell me Beameup, did Jesus know about this revelation of yours that Mosaic Judaism ceased to exist in 70 ACE when the Temple was destroyed? I am asking because, in a parable of his about the Richman and Lazarus, he said that to escape hell-fire, one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) This is only obvious that Mosaic Judaism did not cease with the destruction of the Temple. I see that rather the truth is that Mosaic Judaism got into an expanding phase after the destruction of the Temple. If you, somehow, have the sacrifices in mind which indeed ceased to exist with the destruction of the Temple, let me add that the sacrifices only multiplied the spiritual problems of Israel. BTW, if you read Jeremiah 7:22, the Prophet revealed a secret to many in Israel even today that HaShem had never commanded that sacrifices be part of the religion of Israel. HaShem allowed them because Moses used of Pichuach Nephesh to make the Exodus possible to happen. But, if you ask me, the sacrifices caused more evil than good to Israel.

beameup · Oct 16, 2016

Ben Masada said:
But, if you ask me, the sacrifices caused more evil than good to Israel.

You might want to check with the Temple Institute or the Temple Mount Faithful, as all the necessary preparations have been made to resume the animal sacrifices.
The only "roadblock" remaining is the true location of the Temple, which was never on the so-called "Temple Mount" - Haram al-Sharif - as there is absolutely zero natural water up there. The Gihon Spring is located in the City of David, which is 600 feet south of the Haram al-Sharif and at a slightly lower elevation.

A prophet will often "look past" the immediate circumstances surrounding the prophecy, and look to a far distant fulfillment of the prophecy;
or in some cases, "change the subject" of the introductory comments, to project into a distant and more supernatural fulfillment. Two thousand years is but a day to YHWH.

Ben Masada · Oct 16, 2016

beameup said:
You might want to check with the Temple Institute or the Temple Mount Faithful, as all the necessary preparations have been made to resume the animal sacrifices.
The only "roadblock" remaining is the true location of the Temple, which was never on the so-called "Temple Mount" - Haram al-Sharif - as there is absolutely zero natural water up there. The Gihon Spring is located in the City of David, which is 600 feet south of the Haram al-Sharif and at a slightly lower elevation.

A prophet will often "look past" the immediate circumstances surrounding the prophecy, and look to a far distant fulfillment of the prophecy;
or in some cases, "change the subject" of the introductory comments, to project into a distant and more supernatural fulfillment. Two thousand years is but a day to YHWH.

Have you ever asked yourself why is it taking so much longer now to rebuild the Temple then the last time around? Could it be fear of Israel from other nations? Absolutely not! Could it be that Israel lacks power to go against futile threats? Absolutely not! Perhaps Jeremiah 7:22 has been proved true that HaShem has had enough and no longer wants a return to sacrifices. If you ask me, I do want the Temple to be rebuilt but to operate as the mother of all synagogues throughout the world and with several yeshivas teaching Tanach and all about Jewish Judaica to all religions from abroad in a university level. The Lord would be much more "pleased" that instead of burning thousands of clean animals, that they be given to those who can hardly enjoy beef on their tables.

beameup · Oct 16, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Have you ever asked yourself why is it taking so much longer now to rebuild the Temple then the last time around? Could it be fear of Israel from other nations? Absolutely not! Could it be that Israel lacks power to go against futile threats? Absolutely not! Perhaps Jeremiah 7:22 has been proved true that HaShem has had enough and no longer wants a return to sacrifices. If you ask me, I do want the Temple to be rebuilt but to operate as the mother of all synagogues throughout the world and with several yeshivas teaching Tanach and all about Jewish Judaica to all religions from abroad in a university level. The Lord would be much more "pleased" that instead of burning thousands of clean animals, that they be given to those who can hardly enjoy beef on their tables.

You really need to look into the Temple Institute and watch some of Rabbi Richman's videos.
The reason why it has not been yet built is because God doesn't want it built yet. The actual
location has been completely destroyed (70 AD & 135 AD) to the extent that it remained hidden
until very recent excavations in the City of David (south of the "Temple Mount"). Now, pride
and denial are the stumbling blocks to admission that the WRONG LOCATION has been revered these many centuries. Josephus and others give the correct location and indicate that the very stones were moved to other locations for re-use in other buildings and that the location became an empty field. The entire City of David is under Israeli control and the Arabs have no claim whatsoever on it.

TweetyBird · Oct 16, 2016

WeberHome said:
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Nothing the Jews do surprises me. They've been ignoring God's wishes for centuries, and doing whatever they want even right from the get-go.

● Deut 9:24 . .You have been rebelling against the Lord since the day I became acquainted with you.

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This is a good example of the pot, calling the kettle, black.

TweetyBird · Oct 16, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Have you ever asked yourself why is it taking so much longer now to rebuild the Temple then the last time around? Could it be fear of Israel from other nations? Absolutely not! Could it be that Israel lacks power to go against futile threats? Absolutely not! Perhaps Jeremiah 7:22 has been proved true that HaShem has had enough and no longer wants a return to sacrifices. If you ask me, I do want the Temple to be rebuilt but to operate as the mother of all synagogues throughout the world and with several yeshivas teaching Tanach and all about Jewish Judaica to all religions from abroad in a university level. The Lord would be much more "pleased" that instead of burning thousands of clean animals, that they be given to those who can hardly enjoy beef on their tables.

The purpose for building the Third Temple in Jerusalem is to reinstate the sacrifices and animal sacrifices.

Yom Kippur

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