ECT How is Paul's message different?

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Danoh

New member
turbosixx said:
I'm feeling the exact same way. Please, take your time. I really appreciate your time and I am trying to see it your way. I really, really want to understand truth.
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A thought, Turbosixx...

In contrast to how some others on here end up coming accross, you appear to be in opposition to those truths others on here are attempting to communicate to you, you appear to be opposed not out of malice, but out of how you are approaching your reading of the various passages.

Like where you placed Paul's intended emphasis in his 1 Cor. 15: 2's "in vain."

You ended up concluding by your approach, something along the line that Paul was questioing their having believed. He was not.

Rather, he was beginning to go into an issue some had turned things into - the false conclusion that they had believed a gospel founded on someone who had not risen from the dead.

I often see that in your posts. Your heart is in them, but how you approached the passages might have been off.

Respectfully,
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
Cross Reference is correct.

If you notice his scripture, you will see the part of the verse that says :Ephesians 2:4–9 (NKJV)

" God has made us alive together with Christ and raised us up together,
and made us sit together in the heavenly places "

In other words , God has planned out and is doing everything he can
to make us into physical beings with Godly Character that he can Resurrect as
God like beings who will Rule over the rest of the Angels in the Universe.
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OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
Well , after 45 years of diligently studying the Bible ,

I have concluded that it is very apparent to even the simplest of dilettantes.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Danoh said:
I often see that in your posts. Your heart is in them, but how you approached the passages might have been off.

Respectfully,
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I'm sorry if I come off stubborn but I truly want to understand the truth. I understand the truth wil save me but a lie of Satan will not, that's how he works. My approach might be off and I realize it, that's why I'm on here to try to see passages as others do that have different views.

In order for me beleive what I'm told, I will only accept the bible in context. I'm not a geniues but the fundamentals aren't that hard and I know we do not need a PhD to understand it.

Thanks for your patience.
 
D

Danoh

New member
turbosixx said:
I'm sorry if I come off stubborn but I truly want to understand the truth. I understand the truth wil save me but a lie of Satan will not, that's how he works. My approach might be off and I realize it, that's why I'm on here to try to see passages as others do that have different views.

In order for me beleive what I'm told, I will only accept the bible in context. I'm not a geniues but the fundamentals aren't that hard and I know we do not need a PhD to understand it.

Thanks for your patience.
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I so tire of those who claim to know the truth; and yet appear heavily enmeshed in being unable to deal with others in the grace of their said supposed truth.

So let me ask you this in your defense - do you believe that the moment a person believes that Christ died for their sins, God saves them?

Further, that He also seals them in His Son until that day of His return to redeem, collect on, His purchased possession?

Or do you believe you have to do something to get saved?

Or to stay saved?

Whatever your answer, it is still tiresome to see so many beat up on, malign, insult, practically swear at those who they view as confused or what have you.

2 Tim. 2:

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Danoh said:
I so tire of those who claim to know the truth; and yet appear heavily enmeshed in being unable to deal with others in the grace of their said supposed truth.

So let me ask you this in your defense - do you believe that the moment a person believes that Christ died for their sins, God saves them?

Further, that He also seals them in His Son until that day of His return to redeem, collect on, His purchased possession?

Or do you believe you have to do something to get saved?

Or to stay saved?

Whatever your answer, it is still tiresome to see so many beat up on, malign, insult, practically swear at those who they view as confused or what have you.

2 Tim. 2:

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
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The dynamic power of justification is that you have to keep on believing it. Col 1; 1 Tim 2. That is, to believe that that is the picture we have: God requires a perfect righteousness and this is found in Christ alone. If you leave either of those two things, you have left the Gospel anyway, and God does not save a person apart from the Gospel.

It will also help clarify the question to say whether "saved" means justified. It does most of the time, but sometimes people think the personal transformation is a separate enterprise. When they do, the question gets too slippery to answer. Many people don't act saved, because they have drifted from the ongoing, continuous glory of justification and are pursuing personal transformation on their own terms.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
“Therefore [the righteous] being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” Romans 5:1-2 (KJV)


And If the righteous [man] is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” 1 Peter 4:18 (ESV) 


. . . . and If the justified righteous are scarcely saved, what is the problem? Isn't salvation an automatic for them? Perhaps something else needs be understood by the words of Paul, something lacking in the dimension of his words to our understanding of what constitutes the power of gospel for salvation, taken for granted by the congregation?

Clue: Jesus possessed it.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
I wanted to spend more time on this but hopefully it makes sense.

Clete said:
Let me respond for now by asking you another question...

Just what (in your view) is the law of Christ and in what way is it different than the Law of Moses?

Please answer with Galatians 3:21 in mind.
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This is my current understanding. The OT is full of things that we can look to for a better understanding of the Christian age. If we look at the Law of Moses, it can be broken down into two basic parts. Man’s relationship with God and his fellow man. I believe the Law of Christ is the same relating to our relationship to God and man. The LOM goes into detail what is sin against God and man. The particulars don’t apply any longer as well other particulars of the LOM, hence our liberty but the essence of them does, love God and your neighbor.

The LOM goes into detail on what was to be done about sin. I believe it’s the same under the LOC, the details are different but the basics are the same. In Christ we can and do sin against God and man but instead of using animal sacrifices we have a perfect sacrifice that is able to forgive sins. The serious sins could not be atoned and God wanted the evil removed so they were cut off or put to death. In Christ they can be forgiven but they cannot continue. For example:
Lev. 20:11 If there is a man who lies with his father's wife, he has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
We see the same situation in the NT.
1 Cor. 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.
Paul said get him out so that his soul may be saved.
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
We know from the next letter that he did seek forgiveness and returned.

I could go on, but there are a lot of principles we can learn and I believe can be applied to the LOC.

Gal. 3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

The way I understand it, LOM was not intended to replace the promise, if it were then inheritance (righteousness) would have been based on it. It had a purpose but it wasn’t what was promised, we received the promise and it's far better.

Heb. 11:39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Danoh said:
I so tire of those who claim to know the truth; and yet appear heavily enmeshed in being unable to deal with others in the grace of their said supposed truth.

So let me ask you this in your defense - do you believe that the moment a person believes that Christ died for their sins, God saves them?

Further, that He also seals them in His Son until that day of His return to redeem, collect on, His purchased possession?

Or do you believe you have to do something to get saved?

Or to stay saved?

Whatever your answer, it is still tiresome to see so many beat up on, malign, insult, practically swear at those who they view as confused or what have you.

2 Tim. 2:

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
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I would be glad to answer your questions but I believe that would be another topic.
 
D

Danoh

New member
turbosixx said:
Are these different gospels than the gospel of grace because they are not called the gospel of grace?
Rom. 1:9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son,
Rom. 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God,
Phil. 1:27 Watever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.
Eph. 6:15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Because Paul is the only one to use the term "gospel of grace" does not make it a different gospel. They are all based on Christ.
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A thought.. Your question assumes the criteria you are relying on as your basis is sound.

See things through the standard "one size fits all" that most do, and its resulting spillover into your criteria in the above will appear to make sense.

But that does not mean it is sound.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Danoh said:
A thought.. Your question assumes the criteria you are relying on as your basis is sound.

See things through the standard "one size fits all" that most do, and its resulting spillover into your criteria in the above will appear to make sense.

But that does not mean it is sound.
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Why not?

Do you believe that the moment a person believes that Christ died for their sins, God saves them?
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I sincerely ask,why not? What happens by such believing? What actually is he getting for his "effort"?
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
OCTOBER23 said:
CLETE

LAW OF MOSES = PHYSICAL Only

Law of Christ = Spiritual = of the Heart and Mind = Godly Character
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Not so...

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[d] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”​
 
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