Only One Gospel?

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:


Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thanks!

Jerry Shugart said:

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thanks!

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Though Jesus is the "CENTER PIECE" of this matter... people seem to misunderstand the distinction between the Diaspora and the Uncircumcised and the meaning of Messiah to the two entities.

The verse that Paul speaks here... (Gal. 1:6f) is specifically in reference to the Dispensation of Grace to the Gentiles (Body of Christ) ... which even is affirmed by Jesus... here... (Luke 21:24)... and again by Paul here... (Romans 11:25f)

What evil deception has these people that fail to understand this under its' spell? (Replacement Theology)

Jerry Shugart said:

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

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The time of their visitation.

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

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Yup.

Thanks!

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:wave:

I think most people realize there are two or three gospels ... one for each Savior.

Jerry Shugart said:

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thanks!

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If taken literal, even then Paul's message was about what the Prophets and Moses said should come. Galatians shows Christ like Isaac was born from above Matt 11:11 also hints that Jesus was the innerman who could do nothing without the Father that we also have in us.

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Jerry Shugart said:

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thanks!

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Would have to ask, "Why not?" God is sovereign. Jesus Christ declared the salvation of the thief on the cross, who expressed faith. Most obvious, Old Testament saints, holy men of God, whatever you wish to call those elect, those who trusted the LORD were saved by that faith, prior to the atonement, Hebrews 11 that doctrine of saving faith, prior to the finished atonement, prior to the knowledge of the gospel of grace. Moses and Elijah appeared in glory on the mount of transfiguration, the poor man in Abraham's bosom in paradise, the work of the Lord Jesus as yet unfinished.

The question would seem to be on what basis would those doing the Lord's work, carrying His message, be void of saving power, if Old Testament people can be declared holy and be in paradise, before the finished work of the Lord Jesus? Common sense would also seem to dictate the Lord doesn't send people out on a futile and powerless mission, no point to preaching the kingdom to no effect, if nobody can be brought to the kingdom, wouldn't you think? I believe it's clear the real danger is anybody trying to come to God another way, an old way, after the finished work of the Lord Jesus, just as more is expected of those given more.

Jerry Shugart said:

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

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Of course not.

See here, this has been a TOL staple topic

Jerry Shugart said:

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of ...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

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For a Jew, what was good news? Land and other physical blessings? The coming and deliverance of Messiah? The angels brought tiding of exceedingly great new (gospel) that their Savior had come. "Good news" for them may have been to come hear Him and what He had to say.

I agree with MAD that gospel means 'good news' and that good news is different for different people. I may disagree with them regarding the time between the Lord's Death, Burial, and Resurrection, whether the gospel was that much different between Jew and Gentile. The book of Hebrews spells out their need for regeneration by the Lord's redeeming work, just as much as Paul's message to gentiles did. I would say rather that caveats for Jews were different than those for gentiles. The Jews, by their 'nationality' had different application of the work of Christ but were and are in need of the very same conversion and trust. Perhaps, if I may: The 'good news' for Jew and gentile is Christ. I would capitulate that there is a difference in how 'good news' for Jew and gentile plays out. In a nutshell, even if we disagree, I tend to agree there is only one gospel today.

Jerry Shugart said:

Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

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For me not "THE" gospel, just 'gospel' (good news).

Jerry Shugart said:

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thanks!

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Hebrews 11 says salvation is always by faith (trust) in God. When the Lord Jesus Christ preached in Paradise, I believe He explained to them the gospel (what He did) that now allowed them to leave Paradise and enter into Heaven. Prior, I would suggest that 'saved' was placed in Paradise until the Lord Jesus Christ's completed work. That is why Elijah, for instance, could go there without dying, not to Heaven, but to Paradise. I realize I'm opening a whole can of worms but I think I had to explain my understanding and couldn't do so without talking about Hades at least somewhat. -Lon

Lon said:

For a Jew, what was good news?

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Here is the "good news" which Paul preached in the synagogues of the Jews:

That was the same gospel which Paul continued to preach to the Jews:

That is the same message that Apollos preached to the Jews:


On the day of Pentecost Peter used the facts concerning the Lord Jesus' death and resurrection in order to prove that He is the promised Messiah and then he summed up his discourse by saying:


Dr. Stanley D. Toussaint, Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition at Dallas Theological Seminary (Acts 2), writes the following commentary on Acts 2:36:


The Jews who believed that Jesus is Christ, God come in the flesh, were "born of God". Dr. Zane Hodges, past Chairman of of the New Testament Department at Dallas Theological Seminary, writes the following in regard to Peter's words:

Here are the verses to which Hodges makes reference: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,5).

On the day of Pentecost those who believed the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" and saved. And the apostle John confirmed that fact:

Pauls in a pickle seeing he stated there is neither jew nor gentile in the promise Seed as in one, or its the failure of the reader to grasp the meaning of the terms being used in the allegory and apply them to the history of this world under the sun. The kingdoms within you not some future age on this prison planet that the inner gospel frees you from the outward ground hog day waiting like the past generations did and the outward kingdom just never seems to manifest because like Jesus remarked his kingdom is not of this world nor based on its tradtions that make viod the word.

Jerry Shugart said:

Here is the "good news" which Paul preached in the synagogues of the Jews:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

That was the same gospel which Paul continued to preach to the Jews:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ" (Acts17:2,30).​

That is the same message that Apollos preached to the Jews:

"For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus is Christ" (Acts18:28).​

On the day of Pentecost Peter used the facts concerning the Lord Jesus' death and resurrection in order to prove that He is the promised Messiah and then he summed up his discourse by saying:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).​

Dr. Stanley D. Toussaint, Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition at Dallas Theological Seminary (Acts 2), writes the following commentary on Acts 2:36:

"Here is the conclusion to Peter's sermon. The noun 'Lord', referring to 'Christ', probably is a reference to Yahweh. The same word 'kyrios' is used of 'God' in verses 21, 34, and 39 (cf. Phil. 2:9). This is a strong affirmation of Christ's deity" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament, ed. Walvoord & Zuck, [ChariotVictor Publishing, 1983], 359).​

The Jews who believed that Jesus is Christ, God come in the flesh, were "born of God". Dr. Zane Hodges, past Chairman of of the New Testament Department at Dallas Theological Seminary, writes the following in regard to Peter's words:

"Peter concludes his address with the assertion that 'God has made this Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ' (2:36). His hearers then reply, 'Men and brethren, what shall we do?' (2:37). But such a reaction presumes their acceptance of Peter's claim that they have crucified the one who is Lord and Christ. If this is what they now believe, then they were already regenerated on Johannine terms, since John wrote: 'Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God' (1 John 5:1; cf. John 20:31)" [emphasis added] (Hodges, The Gospel Under Siege, 101).​

Here are the verses to which Hodges makes reference: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,5).

On the day of Pentecost those who believed the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were "born of God" and saved. And the apostle John confirmed that fact:

"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

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You are still missing so much of what is there, Jerry:
1, John is the gospel that speaks of the sacrificial death so many times. All through. There is also not the reaction to the Transfiguration and the denial. This is puzzling, but more to the point: it explodes your statements here because 'Jesus is the Christ' always means he is sacrificial in John.

2, there is nothing about the Bible that gives us your two program, two types, two gospels scheme of things. Johannine vs Paul? No way.

3, if you really want to wrestle with the synoptics you have to have:
A: the initial announcments of forgivenss from sins through the sacrifice of Christ
B: the drifting away from A by the disciples toward something more friendly to their zealot roots
C: the sharp reaction when Jesus puts the sacrificial death back at the center
D: God's hiding the sacrificial death from their thinking otherwise they would have tried to intervene, a peak of which we see in Peter

In other words: why did they drift away from the crucified Messiah?

Interplanner said:

God's hiding the sacrificial death from their thinking otherwise they would have tried to intervene, a peak of which we see in Peter

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Sure!

According to your warped thinking the Apostles had been preaching a gospel at Luke 9:6 which declared the sacrifical death of Christ at every place they went and then all of a sudden they all lost their memory and no longer even knew that the Lord Jesus was to die.

You are somehow able to trick your mind into believing that ridiculous idea but don't expect anyone else to buy into that nonsense!

Jerry Shugart said:

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thanks!

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The gospel is forgiveness of sins through Jesus.

God's Truth said:

The gospel is forgiveness of sins through Jesus.

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Jerry refuses to accept that his 'reminder' of their unawareness in Lk 18 did not apply earlier. They knew it all earlier, but their zealot background blocked it out mentally, so that Peter blows up when Christ puts it back on the front burner. After that confrontation, God has to hide it from them because otherwise they would have tried to prevent it from happening.

The methodological problem of Jerry is prooftexting. Once he finds something like his Lk 18 hideout, he stops thinking and doesn't follow the story anymore. A theology problem has been solved and that's that.

Jerry Shugart said:

If there is only one gospel what was being preached by the Twelve here?:

"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God...And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where" (Lk.9:1-2,6).​

Keep in mind that at that time the Twelve did not even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34). So when the Twelve preached that gospel what specific things were being declared?

And was anyone being saved at that time by believing that gospel?

Thahnks!

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So where is the kingdom at Jerry? The death of Christ the Seed as in one happened before the foundation of the world. Romans explains the metaphoric nature of the term death that isn't physical.
The prodigal is a type of death of the divine seed that goes on a journey or a right of passage into another level of maturity the scence from the Father and jealous sibling all plays out in the Son of God while in prisoned as a son of man mentally. The jew and gentile are another term for the two natures or siblings tradtion mistakes for historical figures. Galatians 4 points that out yet tradition majors on the carnal meaning that kills the message. 1Cor 3:6.

Zeke said:

So where is the kingdom at Jerry? The death of Christ the Seed as in one happened before the foundation of the world. Romans explains the metaphoric nature of the term death that isn't physical.
The prodigal is a type of death of the divine seed that goes on a journey or a right of passage into another level of maturity the scence from the Father and jealous sibling all plays out in the Son of God while in prisoned as a son of man mentally. The jew and gentile are another term for the two natures or siblings tradtion mistakes for historical figures. Galatians 4 points that out yet tradition majors on the carnal meaning that kills the message. 1Cor 3:6.

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Needs a lot of corrections, Zeke, can you rework this?

Interplanner said:

Needs a lot of corrections, Zeke, can you rework this?

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The point being the kingdom is in man along with the temple so the text is about that inward journey that includes the good, bad, and the ugly told in a outward allegory that loses its meaning when taken literal. Or i could just string it all together backward like the original was with no spaces or periods ect.

Zeke said:

The point being the kingdom is in man along with the temple so the text is about that inward journey that includes the good, bad, and the ugly told in a outward allegory that loses its meaning when taken literal. Or i could just string it all together backward like the original was with no spaces or periods ect.

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But the Jerusalem above (Gal 4) is not just inward and subjective. It is what the new heavens/new earth will be like and it is a huge number of believes and Paul feels intimately connected. The name itself borrows on what the city of David meant to Jews. That was obviously a picture of what would come in Christ but don't minimize it too much or it will disappear.

Zeke said:

So where is the kingdom at Jerry?

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Awaiting the return of the Lord Jesus' to the earth, as witnessed by His own words: