ARCHIVE: Thread Theft (docrob and Knight)
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docrob57 said:
So the Prophesy of Jonah was...
If you don't repent in 40 days you will be destroyed.
but if you do repent, in 40 days you will not be destroyed.
So if I understand correctly you are saying that Jonah predicted one of those two things was going to happen (depending how the people responded) and one of those two things did happen! This confirms the settled view how?
I don't think docrob ever pondered the theological consequences of accepting a "conditional" future . . . until now.deardelmar said:
Knight said:
Not necessarily. My only contention is that God must have "perfect exhaustive foreknowledge" if He is God. Which I think we would both beleive that He is. I do not beleive that God changes His mind, though I do know the Bible speaks as if He does at times. I believe that the Bible puts things that way for purposes of human understanding, not because God actually changes His mind.
Jer 18 in no way suggests that God changes His mind. I beleive the open view contention that some prophecies are false seriously undermines God. Not intentionally, of course, but it seems to be an attempt to "bring God down to our level."
As to the settled nature of the future I am unclear. If not settled, the extent to which it is open must be bounded because I do believe that Christ will return, and I assume you beleive this as well.
deardelmar said:
It doesn't confirm the settled view. You guys are hung up on the open/settled thing, I really don't care about that. I do care about God being made to look indecisive and overly subject to human limitations which I believe that the open view does.
Also, it bothers me that it appears the goal becomes more to win believers to the open view than to win the lost for Christ. Hopefully this isn.t true, but it begins to look that way.
God_Is_Truth
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docrob,
did you see my post?
did you see my post?
God_Is_Truth
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docrob57 said:
I don't take offense that you disagree. But can you refute it?
Lucky said:
True, however, arguing an obscure theological position that I have never heard anyone but the participants of this forum support is a little different. Plus, there are certain aspects of the idea whichto me make no sense and which I have never seen credible arguments to support.
God_Is_Truth said:
There is nothing to refute really. If we have to ignore the whole content of the statement, including the implied content, then I guess you are right, You you have demonstrated to your own satisfaction that God either made a false statement or that he was unable to carry out His threat.
I don't see what you gain by that.
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Knight said:
seekinganswers
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Knight said:
YES!!!!!
Tell me, at the end of the story, where do we find the King of Nineveh?
Peace,
Michael
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seekinganswers said:
In fact, where do we find all of the inhabitants of Nineveh?
seekinganswers
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In fact, where do we find all of the inhabitants of Nineveh?
Peace,
Michael
Peace,
Michael
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deardelmar said:
The text does not say that Nineveh will be destroyed (not even out of the words of Jonah). It uses a word that can mean destroy, but in fact means turned or overturned. The ending I was speaking about comes in the text itself (I was not asking about the ultimate end of Nineveh many decades later). The king dethrones himself, and the people (and the animals) dress up in sack cloth and ashes and pray to God for mercy. This is called repentance, and so the people were turned and Nineveh was overturned. Prophesy is not about telling the future. It is about the present actions of a people, and tells you what will come about if there is no repentance, however, the purpose of the prophesy if to incite people to repent. The people of Nineveh repent of their sins, and thus Nineveh is overthrown (not through fire and brimstone as many seem to think must be involved in prophesy and judgment). Neither prophecy nor judgment are exclusively tied to fire and brimstone. Judgment is simply the entrance of truth (the entrance of God) into the Creation so as to make quite clear what the natural order of things is.
Now if we look to Jonah in this, we find that Jonah was not free at all, but was a stubborn fool who ran from God, and wanted to think that he knew what was best for the city of Nineveh. He isn't free, but is a slave to his own pride, and to the pride of a people who have fogotten where they come from. He says at the very end that he knew God was merciful and would not be harsh with the Ninevites, and that is why he ran in the first place. The truly free people are the ones who when confronted with God they acknowledge God and obey (i.e. the sailors on the boat to Tarshish, and the Ninevites).
Peace,
Michael
Knight said:
I'm not sure what that meansseekinganswers said:
In time yes, In space no!
God did, in fact, bring space into being! Time, on the other hand, is merely a sequence of events. God actually does things and he does them in order! He created the Heavens and Earth before he created man. He kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden before Noah's flood. To experience events in order is not some sort of prison, even for God! It is simply reality!
This statement is just weird and not true!
What does that mean?
My brain is beginning to hurt!
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