ECT The Gospel Proper

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Danoh

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A fine mess your cherry picking has ended you up at, Jerry, that you would now assert that anyone who does not agree with you on your above confusion does not because they are not saved - and that, on the basis of passages of Scripture you have also obviously cherry picked, and read things into.

You're quite the ever waxing worse and worse character, I'll give ya that much.

:chuckle:

Romans 5: 6-11.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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Danoh said:
A fine mess your cherry picking has ended you up at, Jerry, that you would now assert that anyone who does not agree with you on your above confusion does not because they are not saved - and that, on the basis of passages of Scripture you have also obviously cherry picked, and read things into.

You're quite the ever waxing worse and worse character, I'll give ya that much.
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Those who are born of the Spirit can recognize the truth that the Lord Jesus repeatedly told the Jews who lived under the law that "faith" was all that was necessary to be saved. But you are unable to understand what He said in those verse but those who are born again can. Let us look at the following verse again:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."

So once a Jew who lived under the law believed he receives eternal life. Anything which happens to any of them after he believed could not contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life.

Now, my friend, give me your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Clete said:
This is Jerry's main mode - reading his doctrine into individual verses. It's a classic case of missing the forest for the trees.
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If he was correct, there'd have been no need for the Apostle Paul's ministry to exist at all and he could never have written Romans 2 & 3.[/QUOTE]

Paul's ministry was that as the Apostle of the Gentiles. According to prophecy Israel was to be the LORD's agent to bring the knowledge of the Lord Jesus to the world but since she rejected her promised Savior the LORD appointed Paul to bring in the "mystery" program so that the Gentiles could hear the gospel of Christ and be saved when they believed.

Clete, you probably don't even know what Paul meant when he spoke of the "dispensation of the grace of God" at Ephesians 3:2.

Do you?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Jerry Shugart said:
If he was correct, there'd have been no need for the Apostle Paul's ministry to exist at all and he could never have written Romans 2 & 3.

Paul's ministry was that as the Apostle of the Gentiles. According to prophecy Israel was to be the LORD's agent to bring the knowledge of the Lord Jesus to the world but since she rejected her promised Savior the LORD appointed Paul to bring in the "mystery" program so that the Gentiles could hear the gospel of Christ and be saved when they believed.

Clete, you probably don't even know what Paul meant when he spoke of the "dispensation of the grace of God" at Ephesians 3:2.

Do you?
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The only reason Paul went only to the Gentiles was because whenever the Jews heard Paul preach to them about Jesus, the Jews thought that he was trying to trick them into saying they believe in Jesus so that he could have them arrested.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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God's Truth said:
The only reason Paul went only to the Gentiles was because whenever the Jews heard Paul preach to them about Jesus, the Jews thought that he was trying to trick them into saying they believe in Jesus so that he could have them arrested.
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Paul didn't go only to the Gentiles.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Spell it out Jerry. Don't be vague and simplistic.

Tell us what the "house rules" were before and after the change.
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I have been answering your questions so it is your time to tell us what "house rules" apply to the present dispensation. What do Paul's words "the dispensation of the grace of God" (Eph.3:2) refer to?

If you show me that you really understand the "house rules" for the present dispensation then I will tell you the "house rules" for the past dispensation.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Jerry Shugart said:
He had not been arrested at the time of Acts 17:1-3.
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I gave you this scripture, Acts 22:21, to show that Jesus sent Paul far away to the Gentiles, not because he had a different gospel to preach, but because the Jews didn't trust Paul, for Paul used to have Jews who believed in Jesus put in prison, and even approved of their death.

Acts 22:21 Then He said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Jerry Shugart said:
I have been answering your questions so it is your time to tell us what "house rules" apply to the present dispensation. What do Paul's words "the dispensation of the grace of God" (Eph.3:2) refer to?
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I asked you first.

You seem to be flying solo here, disagreeing with most of the MAD people here. You need to formally correct us with a clear breakdown of these two dispensations.

Jerry Shugart said:
If you show me that you really understand the "house rules" for the present dispensation then I will tell you the "house rules" for the past dispensation.
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Only you know Jerry, Teach us.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Paul was an apostle to the Jews too; but was only sent away to the Gentiles because the Jews didn't trust Paul, they thought he was just trying to trick them into saying they believe in Jesus so that he could drag them off to prison.

Saul put many of the saints in prison, and when they were put to death, he cast his vote against them. Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison. Acts 22:4, Acts 22:20, Acts 26:10, Acts 8:3.

Read here where Paul tells the Lord Jesus Christ about how the Jews think he is just trying to trick them, and then Jesus sends him to the Gentiles.

Acts 22:19 ‘Lord,’ I answered, ‘they know very well that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in You. 20And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’ 21Then He said to me, ‘Go! I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”

Acts 26:11 Many a time I went from one synagogue to another to have them punished, and I tried to force them to blaspheme. I was so obsessed with persecuting them that I even hunted them down in foreign cities.
 
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Danoh

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Jerry Shugart said:
The main change was that Paul began to preach the "gospel of the grace of God" to the Gentiles. And as he said, "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel."
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Your reply there, just goes to show you don't understand the actual purpose of the Mystery preached by Paul that the gospel of the grace of God is merely an aspect of.

What changed was the direction that Israel had been headed towards - the Wrath of God, that temporarily delayed.

Why?

That God might first solve for that other fall (the one that took place in Heaven with Lucifer and those Angels who sided with him), Is. 14; Ezek. 28.

God's plan for solving for that one day is the Mystery preached by Paul, and concerns a New Creature which will one day inhabit those fallen Heavenly Places even now still the realm of the Prince of the Power of the Air and his Dark Princes, Eph. 1:19-23; 2:2; 6:12.

The gospel the grace of God being the means by which God is saving formerly lost Jews and Gentiles in this New Creature: the Body of Christ, which began with Paul, after Israel's fall and temporary setting aside, 1 Thess. 2: 15, 16; Rom. 11:25; 2 Cor. 5: 16-21; Rom. 8: 16-30; 1 Tim. 1:16, etc.

Israel is the means by which He will reclaim back the Earth that Adam forfeited the rule over, with that fall that took place in Eden, Gen. 3; Ex. 19: 5, 6; etc.

In contrast, The Body is the mens by which God will reclaim those Heavenly Places that fell when Lucifer rebelled and various Angels sided with him.

Both aspects of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery, of which center around the Lord of Glory, 1 Cor. 2: 8, of whom the whole family in heaven AND earth is named, Eph. 3:15.

Man are you behind on those further refinements in the understanding of God's TWO-Fold Purpose that took place after O'Hair went home to be with the Lord, but that his great contributions had made the further refining of after his home going, possible, to begin with.

Much of this was first recovered and preached about in great detail at BBS conferences, and later, at Grace School of the Bible (GSB) conferences, by Richard Jordan.

The late Keith Blades based his great book "Satan and His Plan of Evil" on Jordan's seemingly endless, dating back several decades, audio recorded teachings on all this.

Get that out of the way, Jerry, and then you'll have a clue as to why so many assert you are so off.

Two places you can order that book from, the second one has a good description of this very important, MUST HAVE book, the perfect follow up to Stam's classic, Thing's That Differ.

Resource one:

https://www.forgottentruths.com/satanandhisplanofevil.aspx

Resource two:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/sata...urvey-of-the-biblical-doctrine/oclc/302419044

Here is a nice breakdown of some of the Mystery part of God's TWO-Fold Purpose (based on Blades' book) by Nancy Paulson:

http://www.oocities.org/ambassadors4christ/writings/paulson/policy.html

2 Timothy 2:15
 
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