Trinity Proof Scriptures

musterion

Well-known member
Yours was the bad logic. You're the one who said, "The Bible alone is sufficient to the task." Non-Trinitarians use the Bible to argue against the Trinity.

So? They're wrong.

It occurs to me that your logic is much worse than I thought. If the Bible, the word of God, is not sufficient to defend a Bible doctrine, don't you see how foolish it is to suppose mere men were able to craft statements that can accomplish what God Himself could not? Seriously, are you THAT dense?

Seems your belief in Trinitarianism is really based on the fact that creeds define it, not on the fact that the Bible teaches it.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings Idolater,
The Nicene Creed professes that the Lord Jesus Christ is "true God of true God," or, "true God from true God."

The Nicene Creed is Apostolic. It means that Apostles literally taught bishops what this Creed contains.

So you're incorrect, in being non-Trinitarian. You're denying the Apostles their teaching authority, which is the teaching authority of Christ Jesus, Who gave it to them.
Do you have any way to verify that the teaching contained in the Nicene Creed is “Apostolic”? Looking at wiki, the Nicene Creed was originally adopted in AD 325, and amended in AD 381, plenty of time to corrupt the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
There has been much discussion on a number of so-called "Trinity Passages". I would like to continue on in a similar concept to the OP and start two lists, both from a non-Trinitarian perspective. The first is where I consider a reference is often used by Trinitarians, but is easily explained from a non-Trinitarian perspective. The second is a list of passages where the clear teaching of the Bible is stated, that there is one God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I invite other non-Trinitarians to add references and brief explanations to each list as I will start with a few references in each list.

Passages used by Trinitarians, but easily answered by non-Trintarians
1 John 5:7 KJV (as per OP) Does not appear in many MSS, and is excluded from most modern translations. A reasonable explanation can be found in Barnes' Notes, available on Bible Hub.

John 10:30 (as per OP) Can be easily explained from Jesus' detailed answer to their accusation in John 10:30-36 and by the similar language in John 17.

John 8:28 Jesus is not claiming to be an independent Deity here as he is stating his absolute dependence upon His Father, God the Father. There is no direct link here to Exodus 3:14, as even the KJV and most other translators recognise this, and translate this as "I am he".

Genesis 1:26 The "us" and "our" refers to the Angels who God the Father invited to participate in the creation of man. This is confirmed by David's summary of Genesis 1:26-27 in Psalm 8:5, where he states that Yahweh, God the Father, made man a little lower than the Angels (Elohim).

Matthew 28:19 clearly teaches that The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit have the One Name, but this is a Family Name, where God is the Father, and Jesus is The Son of God, and the Holy Spirit is God's Power.

Passages that teach that there is one God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God
1 Corinthians 8:6 clearly states that there is One God the Father, and One Lord, Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:1-3 clearly distinguishes between the One God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. God is also called "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ". Nearly every letter by Paul uses the same distinction, showing that there is One God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly states that the God of the OT, Yahweh, is One God, not two or more. The interaction between the scribe and Jesus in Mark 12:28-31, 32-34 clearly reinforces that both the Scribe and Jesus both believed in the One God, the Father.

Luke 1:34-35 clearly states that the child Jesus who was to be born, was to be called the Son of God, because God the Father was his father, and Mary was his mother. Compare also Matthew 1:20-21.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Greetings Idolater, Do you have any way to verify that the teaching contained in the Nicene Creed is “Apostolic”? Looking at wiki, the Nicene Creed was originally adopted in AD 325, and amended in AD 381, plenty of time to corrupt the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
Arius was the dude that made up non-Trinitarianism. He was a priest, he wasn't a bishop; similar to Martin Luther. Unlike Luther, some (Eastern) bishops actually bought into Arius's made up non-Trinitarianism (Luther convinced zero bishops of his made up ideas). Western bishops (e.g., the archbishop of Rome; the Pope) agreed together that the Apostles had taught the Trinity as the authentic Christian definition of God, and that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, as defined by the Trinity. In AD 1054 Eastern bishops formally rejected the Pope's declaration that the Apostles had also, along with the Nicene Creed, taught 'filioque.'
 

genuineoriginal

New member
[Every instance of lying] is [an instance of a person lying to a person].
Only an abject fool--someone devoted to irrationality--will be willing to say that that proposition is FALSE.
Only an idiot would think that proposition is true.
The very first clue that it is a false proposition is the use of the word "every".
There are other problems with the proposition,such as the lack of a reliable common definition for person and the attempt to use this lack to come to the false conclusion that you can turn anything into a person by telling it a lie.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
The Nicene Creed professes that the Lord Jesus Christ is "true God of true God," or, "true God from true God."

The Nicene Creed is Apostolic. It means that Apostles literally taught bishops what this Creed contains.

So you're incorrect, in being non-Trinitarian. You're denying the Apostles their teaching authority, which is the teaching authority of Christ Jesus, Who gave it to them.
The Nicene creed is not taught by the apostles.
It wasn't formulated in its original form until 325 CE and its revised form in 381 CE.

Also, "Apostolic" means attributed to the teachings of the Apostles, not what the Apostles literally taught.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Arius was the dude that made up non-Trinitarianism. He was a priest, he wasn't a bishop; similar to Martin Luther. Unlike Luther, some (Eastern) bishops actually bought into Arius's made up non-Trinitarianism (Luther convinced zero bishops of his made up ideas). Western bishops (e.g., the archbishop of Rome; the Pope) agreed together that the Apostles had taught the Trinity as the authentic Christian definition of God, and that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, as defined by the Trinity. In AD 1054 Eastern bishops formally rejected the Pope's declaration that the Apostles had also, along with the Nicene Creed, taught 'filioque.'

False. Arius did not make up anything. Arius was opposing the western bishops that were teaching a new concept (binitarianism) because it was not taught by the scriptures.
Trinitarianism didn't get created until 45 years after the death of Arius.
 

musterion

Well-known member

1 John 4:14
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.​



I suppose you might be upset when it plucks off two of the petals of the yellow wheel chart you like to use.

CetnarWheel.JPG

I let this go a few days to see if he'd follow up. I figured he wouldn't but gave him the chance.

Notice what the dishonest G.O. did here.

He focused, incorrectly, on only ONE part of this chart and didn't even reference the rest. Ignored all but the ONE point he thought he could contest, which (I guess) his mind figured would refute ALL of it.

Of course for him to think that would be the nadir of stupidity but he did not even try to respond to the dozens of Bible verses where Christ is equated with God. So I can only conclude his juvenile reasoning told him that arguing against one part of it lets him off the hook for the other 90%.

Why, dear readers, do you think G.O. didn't say anything about that other 90%?
 

Dartman

Active member
In his post #125, Right Divider wrote:



Your reaction to that was to write:



Right Divider didn't write nonsense; he meant something in what he wrote. He affirmed a proposition. No proposition is nonsense; every proposition is meaningful. Every proposition is either true or false, and whatever is either true or false is not nonsense. Now, here's the proposition Right Divider is affirming:

[Every instance of lying] is [an instance of a person lying to a person].
Only an abject fool--someone devoted to irrationality--will be willing to say that that proposition is FALSE. Obviously, you are aware of this, and, thus, you understand the embarrassment in which you'd necessarily involve yourself by claiming that Right Divider's proposition is FALSE. And yet, you, obviously, must needs hate to admit, publicly, that Right Divider's proposition is TRUE. So, you thought you would somehow help yourself by saying that Right Divider's proposition is NONSENSE. But, that ploy's just now been exploded, and it didn't help you. So, make yourself clear. Here, again, is the proposition:
Every instance of lying is an instance of a person lying to a person.

What do you say of it? Is it TRUE or is it FALSE? It is one or the other, so which do you say it is?

Here's a fun syllogism for you to react to:
Major Premise: Every instance of lying is an instance of a person lying to a person,

Minor Premise: Ananias' lying to the Holy Ghost is an instance of lying,

ERGO,
Conclusion: Ananias' lying to the Holy Ghost is an instance of a person lying to a person.

So long as both the Major Premise and the Minor Premise of this syllogism are true, the Conclusion MUST be true. As an heretic, you deny the Conclusion, obviously, so which Premise do you deny (if not both of them)?
Since the holy spirit is God's spirit/mind.... it is absolutely true lying to the holy spirit, God's spirit/mind, is lying to God. Just like if you lie to my mind, you have lied to me.

You are trying to make this a LOT harder than it is.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Since the holy spirit is God's spirit/mind.... it is absolutely true lying to the holy spirit, God's spirit/mind, is lying to God. Just like if you lie to my mind, you have lied to me.

You are trying to make this a LOT harder than it is.
Why is it so hard for you to believe the truth?

The Bible speaks of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost individually and yet it also speaks of each as being God.

In this regard, it's so simple that a child can understand it.

Mat 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

One NAME .... three PERSONS..... just believe it and then you can move on to other topics.
 

Dartman

Active member
Why is it so hard for you to believe the truth?

The Bible speaks of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost individually and yet it also speaks of each as being God.

In this regard, it's so simple that a child can understand it.
Mat 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

One NAME .... three PERSONS..... just believe it and then you can move on to other topics.
The holy spirit is God's spirit .... an attribute OF God, a thing possessed by God, it is God's mind, and the power produced by God's mind.

IT is called "His spirit", or "holy spirit of God", or some other possessive phrase more than 50 times in Scripture.

Jesus said he would "pray the Father, and HE will send you another comforter" (John 14).

Jesus also said ;
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask Him?

Luke calls God's spirit "the power of the Highest". (Luke 1:35)
 

Right Divider

Body part
The holy spirit is God's spirit .... an attribute OF God, a thing possessed by God, it is God's mind, and the power produced by God's mind.
Is Matthew 28 missing from your Bible?

IT is called "His spirit", or "holy spirit of God", or some other possessive phrase more than 50 times in Scripture.

Jesus said he would "pray the Father, and HE will send you another comforter" (John 14).

Jesus also said ;
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask Him?

Luke calls God's spirit "the power of the Highest". (Luke 1:35)
Yep.... it says that TOO. So what?
 

Dartman

Active member
..
The Bible speaks of the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost individually
Yes.
RD said:
and yet it also speaks of each as being God.
Sure, in that Jehovah alone is "the ONLY true God", and Jesus as King of Israel, is included with the OTHER KINGS of Israel, in Psa 45. Jesus ALSO, as God's appointed judge, would fit in the usage of "God" for the leaders of Israel in Psa 82:6, which Jesus quotes, and as God's appointed prophet, like Moses, Jesus speaks in the name of his God.
The holy spirit is a possession/attribute OF God, and obviously is God.... more specifically part of God.
RJ said:
In this regard, it's so simple that a child can understand it.
Mat 28:19 KJV Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

One NAME .... three PERSONS.....
Names are given for persons, places and things.

It is NOT uncommon for things to be given names;
Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.


In language we see "In the name of ...." being used as explained here;
1. By the authority of, as in Open up, in the name of the law!
2. On behalf of, as in She made a donation in her daughter's name.
3. in God's or heaven's name ; in the name of God or heaven . With appeal to, as in In the name of God, stop thatnoise! or What in heaven's name are you doing?
4. Under the designation of, as in They burned witches at the stake in the name of piety.
5. Under the possession or ownership of, as in The certificate of ownership was rightfully in my name.
6. in one's own name. On one's own behalf, as in Mary signed the check for John in her own name.


So, given the entire context of Scripture, the phrase "in the name of the Father, and of the son and of the holy spirit" means in the authority of God, as the being of origin, and of the son, as God's chosen representative/agent, and of the holy spirit, as God's power and mentality.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Yes what?

Sure, in that Jehovah alone is "the ONLY true God", and Jesus as King of Israel, is included with the OTHER KINGS of Israel, in Psa 45. Jesus ALSO, as God's appointed judge, would fit in the usage of "God" for the leaders of Israel in Psa 82:6, which Jesus quotes, and as God's appointed prophet, like Moses, Jesus speaks in the name of his God.
You are very selective in using only pet verses and ignoring the rest.

Please give us the scripture that says that 'Jehovah alone is "the ONLY true God"'.

Isa 44:6 KJV Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

How about THAT "King of Israel"?

Who is "His redeemer the LORD of hosts"?

Zec 14:3-4 KJV Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. (4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The LORD will stand of the Mount of Olives, just like He did when He LEFT from the Mount of Olives.

Act 1:8-12 KJV But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (12) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

musterion

Well-known member
1 Cor 3:16

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Here God's Spirit is equated with God. Not His possession or manifestation, but God Himself.

Balance this against 1 Cor 6:19, where it's explicit that the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God. Also Eph 2:22, where the believer is God's dwelling through the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit of God is as much God as the spirit of a person is that person.
 
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