ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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Grosnick Marowbe

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No, this is not my message.

My message is, God must resurrect souls from death, in order for them to live in a spiritual capacity (repentance & faith).

" . . Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3b

" . . You must be born again. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:7b-8b

It's a bit odd that you use Scripture that was pertaining to the House of Israel. Pre-cross, as well. Christ had not yet gone to the cross. The Kingdom message was being taught, as well. Can you explain yourself here?
 

Sonnet

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Regeneration and the gifting of faith from God, is part of the "draw." Point being (unless you want to adopt the Pelagian heresy) dead men have no faith or love for God abiding within. Their hearts are stone cold and hard. Regeneration that changes and quickens the heart with faith to love God anew, is necessary. And Jesus quickens whom He wills. John 5:21

21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Context is giving life to the dead.

Yes it does. And those condemned, unbelieving folk do not want salvation. Read John 3:18-20

Nothing there about not wanting salvation.
 

Sonnet

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Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Who are the children of the promise?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Nang, you may want to address post #802 if you wish to back up what you posted. Otherwise, I'll assume you agree with me and will derive some kind of "cheer" from that.
 

Sonnet

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Lord. For the sake of your servant and according to your will, you have done this great thing and made known all these great promises.

In reference to the promise of a future son who's throne will be established forever. Sounds good.
 

Cross Reference

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Regeneration and the gifting of faith from God, is part of the "draw." Point being (unless you want to adopt the Pelagian heresy) dead men have no faith or love for God abiding within. Their hearts are stone cold and hard. Regeneration that changes and quickens the heart with faith to love God anew, is necessary. And Jesus quickens whom He wills. John 5:21

I want to know, aside from the penetcostal gift of the faith of the son OF God Paul wrote of in Gal 2:20 KJV He lived by, where can you point to from scripture, faith is a gift of God.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
It's a bit odd that you use Scripture that was pertaining to the House of Israel. Pre-cross, as well. Christ had not yet gone to the cross. The Kingdom message was being taught, as well. Can you explain yourself here?

I think it is awful that you would reject the teaching of Jesus Christ just because it was before He died and spoken to a Jew. Especially since the matter pertains to His Kingdom, and who will or will not "see" it.

But this is the tragedy of dispensational teaching (hermeneutics). It takes away from the Words of God which destroys the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
I want to know, aside from the penetcostal gift of the faith of the son OF God Paul wrote of in Gal 2:20 KJV He lived by, where can you point to from scripture, faith is a gift of God.

Too numerous for one post, for all the Scriptures pertaining to the depravity of mankind, reveal Adam and his descendents possess no love for God nor faith in God. Faith in God is a virtue and totally depraved sinners are not virtuous at all.

Plus, if you do a word study of "faith" you will see numerous mentions of the "faith OF Christ" much more often that mentions of "faith IN Christ."

It is the faith OF Christ and His righteousness, that is imputed to the account of the pardoned sinner.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
You mean we are. Why don't you just say you haven't the answer either. It's no shame.

I DO have the answer. You don't have a foundation for all I've been saying already; trapped in the vortex presuming it's a "we".

I'm communing from time into timelessness. NOW. But there is no now... for God.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Who are the children of the promise?

The covenant children; the elect souls who, by grace, receive God's promises of everlasting life.
 

Sonnet

New member
Faith in God is a virtue

Rather, works of the law are virtuous:

Mat 23:23
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness.

Faith is contrasted as being anything but works righteousness: Romans 4:1-4

So faith is not virtue - and would seem to be morally neutral.
 

Desert Reign

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Jesus died for the sins OF the whole world. He didn't die for the whole world. It's about WHAT He died for, not WHO He died for. And that "what" is a noun that is a void as a "somethinglessness".

So let me get this right: you are saying that
a) Christ died for all the sins of all the people who have ever lived or will ever live.
b) As a) above but add in sins committed by non-humans and/or non-sentient things.
c} Christ died for the sins committed by the 'world' in general but not some sins and/or not the sins of some individuals.
d) Sin is not imputed to the individuals who commit it but only to the entity known as the world. Christ died for this sin but not for the sin of individuals.
e) Sin is a void concept, so the whole argument has no merit.
?

Not completely correct. He died to rescue the Divine plan that originated in the Mind of His Father for having created man in the first place. The

I have never heard that God is in the habit of rescuing himself from failed plans. God planned all along that he would send Christ so that all who believe and put their trust in him could receive salvation.

You admit mankind being depraved, but you do not go so far as to admit that this depravity corrupts and kills. Unregenerated men walk this earth as spiritually dead men. They live their entire lives facing an imposed death sentence.

Christ lifted Himself up on the cross as a substitutional offering to pay that death sentence for all those God chooses to justify and pardon.

Thanks for your opinion Nang. I shall of course continue to stick to what the Bible says.

Everyone is approaching this from subtly incorrect modern perspectives based upon erroneous default English concepts.

Apart from your goodself no doubt.

I have read similar commentaries on Romans 9 that you are parroting, with the intent to avoid the doctrine of Unconditional Election, but such fail. Jacob and Esau, without a doubt contrast the elect to the reprobate, as determined by God alone:
" . . That the purpose of God according to election might stand; not of works but of Him who calls." Romans 9:11b
It is great to hear you have read similar commentaries before. However, your logic as awry: it is your onus to prove your doctrine. People don't have to avoid it. I don't read the Bible to avoid having to confront your doctrine. I read it to be blessed by the Spirit. If you want to make some kind of teaching then you have to prove it. A thing you have always failed to do.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
So let me get this right: you are saying that
a) Christ died for all the sins of all the people who have ever lived or will ever live.
b) As a) above but add in sins committed by non-humans and/or non-sentient things.
c} Christ died for the sins committed by the 'world' in general but not some sins and/or not the sins of some individuals.
d) Sin is not imputed to the individuals who commit it but only to the entity known as the world. Christ died for this sin but not for the sin of individuals.
e) Sin is a void concept, so the whole argument has no merit?

If you had any idea what sin is I could answer whatever it is you're attempting to ask.

I said nothing of sins "committed". That would be the verb.

Apart from your goodself no doubt.

There are others, though few.

Go back and catch up on the thread. No sense in repeating everything for you.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
I'm willing to listen.

I think that's true, or I wouldn't have continued.

From the inside outward...
Innner:
Hamartia articular (singular) - Inner Condition (sin in the nature and members)
Hamartia anarthrous (singular) - Every inner qualitative characteristic and functional activity of the condition
Hamartiai anarthrous (plural) - All inner qualitative characteristics and functional activities of the condition

Inward to Outward:
Hamartiai articular (plural) - All individual anarthrous facets as inner demonstration
Hamartano (verb) - Bringing forth the noun into action as the verb
Hamartiai articular (plural) - All individual anarthrous facets as outer demonstration

Outer:
Hamartema/ta singular/plural articular/anarthrous - The resulting actions from acting


Everyone is focused upon hamartano and hamartema/ta, presuming they are hamartia/i in whatever form. So the argument is being framed around wrong perceptions as a false binary.

Hamartema/ta is only used 4 times in the entire NT, yet it is what is superimposed as hamartia/i in most hearts and minds of English thinkers/speakers.

Even when teaching live and the audience "gets it" in the first 2-hour teaching; it still takes weeks and months for most to even begin to comprehend the truth because of the lifetime of false perception that is in place that has replaced the simple application of nouns and verbs.
 
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