wonderful
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
wonderful
beloved57
Well-known member
the jews, the physical descendants of abraham are not the children of God Rom 9:8
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
So salvation cannot be of the children of the devil !
God doesn't make anyone believe or have faith.
Faith and belief come by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 10:17.
The fact of the matter is that He does not, and your idea that He would purposefully make Himself ignorant of something, even if He were able to, is stupid.
It appears that the angels in heaven don't know who is going to be saved, Luke 15:10.
"Praise God another one accepted Christ".
False Prophet
New member
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
John Calvin never said that.
John Calvin never said that.
I believe that he did. Predestination means that you were saved before the foundation of the world. But you don't know that until you get zapped by the Holy Spirit and get saved again.
Brother Ducky
New member
Fair enough. I do not read a lot of Calvin, but where does he say that those who are predestined are saved before the foundation of the world? And as always, and more importantly [I would hold] where is that claim made officially, viz. what Creeds, Confessions, and/or Catechism would so state?
What's the difference between you and a Parrot? Answer: There is no difference.
I would like to know, at what point does a Calvinist know they're one of the Elect? What experience, sign, or wonder lets them know?
I, myself, had to hear the Gospel, and place my faith in Christ as
my Savior. Does a Calvinist have to follow the same route?
my Savior. Does a Calvinist have to follow the same route?
Calvinists never seem to get around to answering that, all important question?
I have a hunch that, they have to hear the Gospel first? Otherwise, there
would have to be some kind of experience they go through?
would have to be some kind of experience they go through?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Those in the flesh have no faith. Without faith it is impossible to please Him.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
What is faith?
Heb. 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Where does that HOPE come from?
Colossians 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Ah, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. That "word of the truth of the gospel. Col. 1:5
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And how shall they BELIEVE, and how shall they hear without a preacher preaching the Gospel?
Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Too many people are unwilling to give heed to the steps that take place so they can toss out one verse they hope will erase the evidence right there for all to see. We are persuaded to believe by hearing the Gospel preached. Simple enough!
ttruscott
Well-known member
GOD invited us to accept HIS deity and be elected to a certain heaven by an equally certain salvation from all sin.
For those who accepted HIS promise of election who later sinned and became evil, they are indeed saved by their previous decision to bow to YHWH as their GOD and accept HIS election to heaven by faith (not proof) but because they are now sinners by their choice to be evil in HIS sight, they need to be brought back to their first free will decision to be committed to HIM, that is, they need to be reborn with a new mind renewed in their spirit...a process called salvation.
We indeed own the car but have destroyed our memory of that by some very bad decisions so we now think the car is a piece of junk. Thus HE must bring us back to our first decision to own the car by destroying the effects of our bad decisions and renewing our faith so we again think it / He is the way to eternal life.
ttruscott
Well-known member
You only hate predestination because it seems arbitrary to you but it was not - We chose HIM or against HIM and He rewarded us who chose HIM by predestining us to heaven by a promise called election to be fulfilled in Christ for those of us who later fell into sin.
Huh?
beloved57
Well-known member
Them in the flesh can't please God! That's all men by nature!
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements!
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements!