Let's talk about the soul

patrick jane said:

Very well, so now you follow your own plan ?

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This is not my plan at all. I have a calling. Something from way up high picked me up from my seat and said "Stand up and speak" and here I am. I wanted to be a musician. I'm glad my plan didn't work out. Thanks for asking. What about you?

Prizebeatz1 said:

What then is the source of a person's self-worth?

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The new born human spirit

intojoy said:

The new born human spirit

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Right. That's the basic idea. I realized that that spirit was always there in the first place. I was very close to it when I was a child and then I turned my back on it. Once I reconnected with it I felt like Lazarus raised from the dead. All those miracles Jesus performed happened to me. I was the blind man who could now see. I was the lady hunched over for 35 years who was made to stand straight. I was the woman who touched the fringe of His robe who was healed. I was healed from things I didn't even know were wrong with me, mainly an unconscious lack of self-worth. Again, though I realized the spirit was always there but I was in the way. It was belief in who I took myself to be that prevented me from seeing this. I had to let go of all beliefs including the belief that my personality is who I am. It was scary but now I know God is super duper real. It's incredible. What's your story?

The reason for universal death is universal sin.

By birth I was born spiritually dead. I had a body and soul but the spirit was like a corpse carried in my flesh with no ability to receive the things of God. It could only receive the things of the world, the flesh and the devil.

When I was told the news that God sent His Son to die in my place for the forgiving of my sins, I believed.

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.”
**John‬ *3:14-15‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/jhn.3.14-15.asv

Eternal life is the spiritual life of the soul. Adam was created a "living soul" and he was alive to God because his spirit had not been effected by sin. It is the same life of the spirit that will be eternal for the redeemed.

My spirit is now alive by grace and by the Spirit of God dwelling in me.

The value of man is his spirit but that spirit must go thru regeneration, the new birth. Once a human being is regenerated that individual is truly valuable and their value is manifested in the fruits of the new born human spirit of Galatians 5.

intojoy said:

The reason for universal death is universal sin.

By birth I was born spiritually dead. I had a body and soul but the spirit was like a corpse carried in my flesh with no ability to receive the things of God. It could only receive the things of the world, the flesh and the devil.

When I was told the news that God sent His Son to die in my place for the forgiving of my sins, I believed.

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.”
**John‬ *3:14-15‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/jhn.3.14-15.asv

Eternal life is the spiritual life of the soul. Adam was created a "living soul" and he was alive to God because his spirit had not been effected by sin. It is the same life of the spirit that will be eternal for the redeemed.

My spirit is now alive by grace and by the Spirit of God dwelling in me.

The value of man is his spirit but that spirit must go thru regeneration, the new birth. Once a human being is regenerated that individual is truly valuable and their value is manifested in the fruits of the new born human spirit of Galatians 5.

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Good post intojoy, I hope pizebeets reads it !!!

Prizebeatz1 said:

This is not my plan at all. I have a calling. Something from way up high picked me up from my seat and said "Stand up and speak" and here I am. I wanted to be a musician. I'm glad my plan didn't work out. Thanks for asking. What about you?

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I'm a MAD Bible believer, I believe every word of the KJV

intojoy said:

The reason for universal death is universal sin.

By birth I was born spiritually dead. I had a body and soul but the spirit was like a corpse carried in my flesh with no ability to receive the things of God. It could only receive the things of the world, the flesh and the devil.

When I was told the news that God sent His Son to die in my place for the forgiving of my sins, I believed.

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.”
**John‬ *3:14-15‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/jhn.3.14-15.asv

Eternal life is the spiritual life of the soul. Adam was created a "living soul" and he was alive to God because his spirit had not been effected by sin. It is the same life of the spirit that will be eternal for the redeemed.

My spirit is now alive by grace and by the Spirit of God dwelling in me.

The value of man is his spirit but that spirit must go thru regeneration, the new birth. Once a human being is regenerated that individual is truly valuable and their value is manifested in the fruits of the new born human spirit of Galatians 5.

Click to expand...

intojoy said:

The reason for universal death is universal sin.

By birth I was born spiritually dead. I had a body and soul but the spirit was like a corpse carried in my flesh with no ability to receive the things of God. It could only receive the things of the world, the flesh and the devil.

When I was told the news that God sent His Son to die in my place for the forgiving of my sins, I believed.

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.”
**John‬ *3:14-15‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/jhn.3.14-15.asv

Eternal life is the spiritual life of the soul. Adam was created a "living soul" and he was alive to God because his spirit had not been effected by sin. It is the same life of the spirit that will be eternal for the redeemed.

My spirit is now alive by grace and by the Spirit of God dwelling in me.

The value of man is his spirit but that spirit must go thru regeneration, the new birth. Once a human being is regenerated that individual is truly valuable and their value is manifested in the fruits of the new born human spirit of Galatians 5.

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I understand. It makes a lot of sense. But was the spirit was like a corpse or was your view of the spirit like a corpse? Maybe that was an unconscious projection onto the outside world, something the personality is famous for. Is it more accurate to say that the personality that experiences spirit needs regeneration or does the spirit itself need regeneration? Spirit is incorruptible, no? Can it actually be affected by sin? Is spirit or eternal life conditional on belief? Is there any such thing as unconditional value or unconditional love? Is spirit sometimes there and sometimes not or is it the personality that views spirit as such? When we use the word spirit, is it equivalent to the Holy Spirit? Do you think of spirit in "traditional" terms like it was not available to us until after Jesus breathed on the apostles?

patrick jane said:

I'm a MAD Bible believer, I believe every word of the KJV

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12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.




John 5:21 KJV


21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will .

Prizebeatz1 said:

I understand. It makes a lot of sense. But was the spirit was like a corpse or was your view of the spirit like a corpse? I wouldn't think the spirit of God could be anything less than perfection itself. Is it more accurate to say that the personality that experiences spirit needs regeneration or does the spirit itself need regeneration? Spirit is incorruptible, no? Can it actually be affected by sin? Is spirit or eternal life conditional on belief? Is there no such thing as unconditional value or unconditional love? Is spirit sometimes there and sometimes not or is it the personality that views spirit as such? When we use the word spirit, is it equivalent to the Holy Spirit? Do you think of spirit in "traditional" terms like it was not available to us until after Jesus breathed on the apostles?

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Galatians 5 - "if you walk by the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh"

The word spirit here lacks the definite article and literally spirit - small s
Thus it is not the Holy Spirit that Paul is commanding the believer to walk in it is their new born human spirit and the fruit of the spirit is the fruit of the new born human spirit.

Jesus says we must be born again in order to enter the kingdom of God.

Jesus says being born of water is not the same as being born of the spirit.

Spiritual regeneration of born anew is when a person moves from being a curios disciple to a convinced disciple of Jesus the Messiah, the God Man King.

What happened to me instantaneously the moment I believed -

I was declared just before God
I received the righteousness of God
I received the new nature that can not sin

The reason scripture teaches that I am to walk in the spirit is because of the spiritual war I am engaged in.

The war against the flesh, the world, and the devil.

The reality of my soul is I no longer live but Christ lives in me and the life I have is by faith in the finished complete work of Christ who took my place and set me free. Being free to live out this life on earth according to my old nature or free to live out my days on earth according to my newborn human spirit. God is that He can require my life as a living sacrifice to him and I can expect from Him the power to see it thru.

Salvation is not amnesty it was purchased and my debt was paid. Because of Him I can sing and rejoice because I am free and my ledger has been wiped out

Praise Him

Prizebeatz1 said:

Thanks for the advice. I get your basic message. I do agree that fulfillment is from the inside. I had it in reverse for a long time because I didn't know any better. I was following someone else's plan instead of my own due to unconscious peer pressure and I was too proud to admit that I could have made a mistake. Boy did I learn my lesson.

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We ALL have it in reverse to begin with. That's why we need the new birth. Peace

Prizebeatz1 said:

If God is everywhere then what merit are the words "No one goes to the Father except through me?" Wouldn't that presume that God the Father is not everywhere already? Is it more likely that the words are about a man named Jesus or is it more likely they point to the infinite expansive nature of the soul?

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Look at the pattern of the Tabernacle. It paints a very clear picture of going to Him in increments.

Also, if you realize that the man Yeshua was the "husk" that the Seed which is the Son of HaShem was in, then the scripture makes sense, because it says that HaShem was IN CHRIST (the Seed man that is Spirit) reconciling all men unto Him. God is a Spirit and His Son is Spirit because all seeds bear fruit after their own kind and Christ's kind is the Father.

So just as the innermost part of the Tabernacle held the Father's presence and glory, so too was/is Christ/the Seed the covering/veil of the Father. So because Christ/the Seed is that covering and representative of the middle Tabernacle compartment, then you can see why He said, speaking as the Seed Son, no man comes to the Father except through me. He is the mediator/middle man, so to speak, for this reason.

We spend our lives initially trying to run from Him which is fruitless. Where can we go, He's in us! David said though I make my bed in Sheol, You are there. HaShem has a sense of humor. He hid Himself in the last place He knew man would look: IN MAN.

Heaven is not position orientated, it's relationship orientated in that it's a state of being. Which is why He said essentially to Nicodemus, I'm in heaven, but I'm right here talking to you in shoe leather. Religion puts Him and heaven off somewhere in the distance, just like the one thief on the cross; relationship through His Spirit puts Him IN YOU. TODAY is the day of your salvation. Peace

I respect there are as many viewpoints as there are people on the planet. For me, it wasn't until I let go of my all my beliefs that I had a spiritual awakening. I saw my beliefs were part of the arsenal that the personality uses to separate me from what infinite and eternal. I did not want to let go no matter the consequences. I didn't think I would survive. I depended on my beliefs for a sense of stability, comfort, foundation and security. It was unconscious pride. Things started to change when I stopped trying to hang on. Your mileage may vary.

Prizebeatz1 said:

If God is everywhere

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change that to

if God is everything

nothing can exist outside of God

being part of God does not make us God
we can be destroyed
if
we can be created
all within God

you don't have to be part of God
and
whether or not you are

will be your choice

intojoy said:

The reason for universal death is universal sin.

By birth I was born spiritually dead. I had a body and soul but the spirit was like a corpse carried in my flesh with no ability to receive the things of God. It could only receive the things of the world, the flesh and the devil.

When I was told the news that God sent His Son to die in my place for the forgiving of my sins, I believed.

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.”
**John‬ *3:14-15‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/jhn.3.14-15.asv

Eternal life is the spiritual life of the soul. Adam was created a "living soul" and he was alive to God because his spirit had not been effected by sin. It is the same life of the spirit that will be eternal for the redeemed.

My spirit is now alive by grace and by the Spirit of God dwelling in me.

The value of man is his spirit but that spirit must go thru regeneration, the new birth. Once a human being is regenerated that individual is truly valuable and their value is manifested in the fruits of the new born human spirit of Galatians 5.

Click to expand...

Soul is what we are, not what we have. When the Lord formed man from the dust of the earth, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7) To become is to be and not to have. Therefore, we don't have souls; we are souls till the day of our death when the body goes back to the dust of the earth and the breath of life goes back to God Who gave it to man.

Ben Masada said:

Soul is what we are, not what we have. When the Lord formed man from the dust of the earth, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7) To become is to be and not to have. Therefore, we don't have souls; we are souls till the day of our death when the body goes back to the dust of the earth and the breath of life goes back to God Who gave it to man.

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And you of all people should know better and be better taught. A simple minded reading even of the scriptures makes it clear man has a soul. Peace

Prizebeatz1 said:

I respect there are as many viewpoints as there are people on the planet. For me, it wasn't until I let go of my all my beliefs that I had a spiritual awakening. I saw my beliefs were part of the arsenal that the personality uses to separate me from what infinite and eternal. I did not want to let go no matter the consequences. I didn't think I would survive. I depended on my beliefs for a sense of stability, comfort, foundation and security. It was unconscious pride. Things started to change when I stopped trying to hang on. Your mileage may vary.

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Believe it or not, I do understand what you are saying, and you do have to come to the place you are describing. Paul said it this way: I know nothing but Christ and Him crucified. Father is above all doctrines but uses the framework to teach about Himself and to test us. It's the terrifying night of the soul to have to lay down ALL and then find out what ALL really means, isn't it? Probably akin to walking on water when the natural law you're familiar with says you'll drown if you do that. Peace

RBBI said:

Believe it or not, I do understand what you are saying, and you do have to come to the place you are describing. Paul said it this way: I know nothing but Christ and Him crucified. Father is above all doctrines but uses the framework to teach about Himself and to test us. It's the terrifying night of the soul to have to lay down ALL and then find out what ALL really means, isn't it? Probably akin to walking on water when the natural law you're familiar with says you'll drown if you do that. Peace

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Yes. That water metaphor is exactly how it feels. Nice one.

chrysostom said:

change that to

if God is everything

nothing can exist outside of God

being part of God does not make us God
we can be destroyed
if
we can be created
all within God

you don't have to be part of God
and
whether or not you are

will be your choice

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The message I got was that we are one with God.

Prizebeatz1 said:

Yes. That water metaphor is exactly how it feels. Nice one.

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Yes, well Paul also talks about it regarding being set free of the law of sin and death. Can't walk on the water until you've been set free of the law of sin and death. What most people don't realize is, everything in there is SPIRIT, written to our Spirit, and as such has spiritual consequences.

So then, after being truly set free of it, as many as are led of the SPIRIT, are the sons of HaShem. My dark night of the soul began with Him coming into my room while I was asleep and telling me it was time for me to walk on the water. Then with His words it felt like I had taken hold of a 10,000 volt cable and didn't die, I was so quickened by His Spirit, and ran for a mile outside in the dead of winter. I know someone that experienced it and he ran 7 miles around the city he was in, which at the time, would have been physically impossible for him due to his weight and age. We all experience it different ways if we make it to that point, but the common denominator seems to be the astounding quickening.

My initial response to you was tailored to a babe not a son. Must give milk to test the waters. Blessings to you in your walk with Him.....Peace