Courtship vs. Dating

Christine · Oct 12, 2003

For me, in the courtship vs.dating debate, courtship would easily win. Safer for both parties envolved, and not as much chance for either to do something they will regret later.
Has anyone looked into bethrothal? I'm not sure what the differences are between that and dating.

Turbo · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Christine
Has anyone looked into bethrothal? I'm not sure what the differences are between that and dating.

Do you mean engagement?

Zimfan · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by HollyJLynn
Whats wrong with telling the truth as long as you are nice about it. It's better than being lied to by far.

I suppose the problem is that most people would rather hear what they want to hear regardless of whether it's true or not. People lie to each other in the early stages of a relationship because they'd rather get a positive reaction now than worry about what will happen if the truth comes out later, as it often does if the relationship last for any significant amount of time.

Zimfan · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by HollyJLynn
Well, if the truth gets out later and they don't like it and dump you ...why did you just waste your time? Get it out in the first place and if the person can't deal with it, obviously wasn't mean to be ...ya know?

That would involve thinking ahead. In this era of sound bites, ritalin, and fast food that is the last thing anyone wants to do. If you expect people to do that, what will you want next? People to take responsibility for their actions or think for themselves? :chuckle:

Christine · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Turbo
Do you mean engagement?

No, not engagement, although hopefully, it would lead up to that. Israel Wayne has popularized the idea. He says that Joshua Harris, authour of I Kissed Dating Goodbye, view of courrtship makes it seem that if you court a girl, and come to the conclusion she is not the right one for you, then you can just go court another until you get it right. Mr. Wayne believes that there is still a danger of people getting hurt with courtship, and that it could end up being to much like dating. He promotes bethrothal instead. Yet, I can't seem to remember what exactly bethrothal is.

Christine · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Christine
For me, in the courtship vs.dating debate, courtship would easily win. Safer for both parties envolved, and not as much chance for either to do something they will regret later.
Has anyone looked into bethrothal? I'm not sure what the differences are between that and courting

ShadowMaid · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Turbo
True, but I was just making a joke. Maybe you didn't get it.

Oh well.

Sorry, I couldn't tell. I took the opportunity to make a point.

Originally posted by HollyJLynn
I tell my boyfriend...

You two are planning to get married, aren't you?

Originally posted by Zimfan
And, of course, when around people they know both men and women will naturally lie so as not to reveal anything that could change the opinions of those friends and family around in a negative way. It's human nature. I find it easier to tell if someone's lying just to look better to me then to look better to any of a group of people about whom I know very little.

Why is it easier?

Zimfan · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by ShadowMaid
Why is it easier?

Because I have no idea what lies they may tell to impress their friends and family. I can make conjectures on what lies she's telling to impress me based on what I believe she knows about me and what I expect. Taking variables out of the equation makes it easier to solve. Just ask Taoist, he'd know. Plus, it's easier for me to pay attention to one person when there isn't a crowd of people around, something that's true even when the person is just a friend. Less variables + less devided attention=greater success rate at detecting lies.

Turbo · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Christine
...Yet, I can't seem to remember what exactly bethrothal is.

Is it when someone is to set up for an arranged marriage?

Zimfan · Oct 12, 2003

Betrothal

\Be*troth"al\, n. The act of betrothing, or the fact of being betrothed; a mutual promise, engagement, or contract for a future marriage between the persons betrothed; betrothment; affiance. ``The feast of betrothal.'' --Longfellow.

according to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

Sounds like an engagement to me.

Turbo · Oct 12, 2003

It does mean engagement, but sometimes I have heard it specifically in the context of arranged marriages. (Or, maybe I should say arranged engagements.)

Zimfan · Oct 12, 2003

That sounds like a terrible thing to promote as better than courting or dating to me.

Christine · Oct 12, 2003

I'll try to look it up tomorrow and see what exactly Israel Wayne means by it. I didn't think he meant an arranged marriage, but you never know.

Rational Human · Oct 12, 2003

I think dating is just the modern practice of courting.

While I do not mind meeting my potential lifemate's family I most certainly do not want them around on our first few dates. I view that time as a chance for me to get to know her better and vice versa for her as well.

Once we get a better understanding of each other, and can see if we think each other is "marriage-worthy" then we can move on to the next step of meeting each others family.

I say this with the awareness that I am a bit of an anomoly. I actually respect women. I mean that only in regards to people that I know personally, not anyone here on these threads.

Usually, when on a "first date" I will not even attempt any physical contact. I mean not even hand holding. I'll take my ques from my dates body language. Also, a kiss on the first date is usually verbotten.

To me, whether dating or courting, I always try to demonstrate to my date that she is worth my time, otherwise I would not be there.

I feel that courting is something mature people do while dating is something kids do.

Application to Date my Daughter

taoist · Oct 13, 2003

HollyJLynn;
I'll jump in to disagree. I tell my boyfriend the truth about everything, and he does same to me.

taoist;
Far be it from me to pop your bubble, missy.

HollyJLynn;
I have asked him if something makes me look a little tubby and if it does...he will tell me something else looks better. If I am going out and want to look good and I don't , I would rather know about it, and change into something that I know looks better ...

taoist;
Wait for it, Zimmy ...

HollyJLynn;
... or more slimming perhaps, hha.

taoist;
Remember what I said about skinny chicks?!

HollyJLynn;
What is the purpose with all of this "flattery" and lying? I have heard a lot of guys say "ohh, she changed after we got married". Well yeah...and thats stupid. Why bother with all of the lies while dating, get the guy to marry you, and then turn into the person you really are once they are stuck. That is justs stupid.

taoist;
Well, yeah. I had a buddy once who thought I was cold and aloof when he first met me. A few months later, he proclaimed loudly at a party. "*** knows why, but the dude and I get along now, it's not like I changed." To which I responded, "Oh yes you did! You became familiar."

HollyJLynn;
Whats wrong with telling the truth as long as you are nice about it. It's better than being lied to by far.

taoist;
What do you think flattery is? Mostly it's telling someone you like that you want them to be happy. Being nice about it? That's just calling flattery a different name.

Oh, and by the way, I kinda noticed that you look slimmer in your more recent pix. Have you lost weight?

Christine · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by Christine
I'll try to look it up tomorrow and see what exactly Israel Wayne means by it. I didn't think he meant an arranged marriage, but you never know.

I found it! Here is a link to an article about bethrothal by Israel Wayne. http://www.fortifyingthefamily.com/betrothal.htm According to what I got out of the article, he believes there is more parental control in bethrothal. He clearly stated at one point in his article that bethrothal is not an arranged marriage.
The boy would first express an interest in a girl that has been a friend, maybe from church, one that he thinks would make a good wife. If his parents think he's ready for marriage, and if they apppove of the girl, then he can apporach her parents about it. If her parents think she is ready for marriage, and they approve of the boy, then they will allow the boy to propose to the girl and see what she thinks. If she turns him down, it's over.
If she says yes, then they being to get to know each better, while waiting for the wedding.

ShadowMaid · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by Zimfan
Because I have no idea what lies they may tell to impress their friends and family. I can make conjectures on what lies she's telling to impress me based on what I believe she knows about me and what I expect. Taking variables out of the equation makes it easier to solve. Just ask Taoist, he'd know. Plus, it's easier for me to pay attention to one person when there isn't a crowd of people around, something that's true even when the person is just a friend. Less variables + less divided attention=greater success rate at detecting lies.

If you have trouble detecting lies when around a girl with her friends and family, it is because: more variables = harder to lie.

Don't you think it's silly that a girl will lie right through her teeth in front of her family?

LightSon · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by ShadowMaid
If you have trouble detecting lies when around a girl with her friends and family, it is because: more variables = harder to lie.

Don't you think it's silly that a girl will lie right through her teeth in front of her family?

I do not understand this whole line of thought.

Lying is wrong. My kids get disciplined for it. Habitual lying would be grounds for me to get a new girlfriend or fiance. I'm glad my wife does not lie, since I'm (happily) stuck with her.

ShadowMaid · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by LightSon
I do not understand this whole line of thought.

Lying is wrong. My kids get disciplined for it. Habitual lying would be grounds for me to get a new girlfriend or finance. I'm glad my wife does not lie, since I'm (happily) stuck with her.

Thats why you don't go dating.

Zimfan · Oct 13, 2003

Originally posted by ShadowMaid
If you have trouble detecting lies when around a girl with her friends and family, it is because: more variables = harder to lie.

Don't you think it's silly that a girl will lie right through her teeth in front of her family?

:darwinsm: ...ahem, sorry about that. I'm sorry, but I've never heard that from someone who wasn't talking about their children before.

Courtship vs. Dating

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