The Gospel Of Thomas

Lon · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
the video has many lies.

I've studied photocopies of fragments and seen a few as well. You are mistaken here. Lee Strobel is a solid man, Joseph.

JosephR said:
all of the gospels are assigned past the 1st century.

:nono:You've been subject to some horrible misinformation, Joseph.
We have portions from as near as 60 A.D. which means possibly penned portions from the hands of the Apostles themselves (likely not but possible with such early treasures).

JosephR said:
Thomas is dated before them all.

:doh: Did you listen to Strobel, who was actually quoting an unbiased professor? He said it could be no earlier than 133 to 200 A.D. and that it had strong Syriac ties which would force it into the second century for dating. Why would you call that a lie, Joseph? Do you have something riding on this not being the case? Do you have a horse in the Thomas race?

JosephR said:
either way they all complement themselves,, again I say, untill you read the GOT you aree assuming,and I am only half way thru it. so I have no authority on it either..

I have read a bit of it. There are plenty of reasons why it is not in our bible's.

JosephR · Apr 28, 2014

Lon said:
I've studied photocopies of fragments and seen a few as well. You are mistaken here. Lee Strobel is a solid man, Joseph.

:nono:You've been subject to some horrible misinformation, Joseph.
We have portions from as near as 60 A.D. which means possibly penned portions from the hands of the Apostles themselves (likely not but possible with such early treasures).

:doh: Did you listen to Strobel, who was actually quoting an unbiased professor? He said it could be no earlier than 133 to 200 A.D. and that it had strong Syriac ties which would force it into the second century for dating. Why would you call that a lie, Joseph? Do you have something riding on this not being the case? Do you have a horse in the Thomas race?

I have read a bit of it. There are plenty of reasons why it is not in our bible's.

then you have access to things we do not.. please supply the sources,,not the video,but real sources.

Levolor · Apr 28, 2014

Lon said:
This does not mean to chase every wind of doctrine. We judge all things by God's standards, not our own. Therefore, when you were at one time chasing every wind and doctrine, God has words of reprimand for such: Ephesians 4:14 2 and esp. Timothy 4:3-4

I think you misunderstand. I was not chasing every wind and doctrine. You, of course, may continue to think I was, but I was not looking to conform to any of it.

I have read the Quran and Satanic Bible as well as many of the gnostic books....

I give you props for reading the Quaran, it bored me to tears and could not finish it.

...but not to tickle my itching ears away from sound doctrine, but rather to steer people back away from ear tickling sinking sand to solid rock.

And my search led me to meet our Savior, in person.

And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

When I teach classes on heresy, I spend much more time teaching truth so that the class will recognize error on their own. Such is ever my endeavor.

Yes, when the truth, who is Christ is known, error is easy to recognize.

JosephR · Apr 28, 2014

You would think we are trying to study the fallen angel Lucifer here...

Maybe we need a thread for "why you shouldnt study the GOT"

so we can continue our study here..

Levolor · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
You would think we are trying to study the fallen angel Lucifer here...

That too would be a good study all in it's self.

Maybe we need a thread for "why you shouldnt study the GOT" ...

Yes, maybe they can even find scripture to support why these sayings are heretical?

...so we can continue our study here..

That would be nice. Those so caught up in their denominational doctrine only wish to fight among themselves instead of having understanding one with another.

Where there is strife is every evil work. (James 3:16)

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another". Romans 14:19

JosephR · Apr 28, 2014

Levolor said:
That too would be a good study all in it's self.

Yes, maybe they can even find scripture to support why these sayings are heretical?

That would be nice. Those so caught up in their denominational doctrine only wish to fight among themselves instead of having understanding one with another.

Where there is strife is every evil work. (James 3:16)

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another". Romans 14:19

indeed I would be more ready for that one. Having been an understudy of Hermetic Order and of the Enochian study of the Kabbalah,

Demonoligist if you will

JosephR · Apr 28, 2014

(36) Jesus said: Be not anxious from morning to evening and from evening to morning about what you shall put on.

JosephR · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
(36) Jesus said: Be not anxious from morning to evening and from evening to morning about what you shall put on.

to me this at first screams of the saying,,the birds of the air do not sow nor reap yet the father DOES provide them food.

Lon · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
you take on a wight I cannot imagine.. for teachers and preachers are held to a higher standard..and the millstone is your friend.

But our Lord our God is merciful AMEN.

I challenge you with this however,since we are only not even half way thru the GOT, tell me what specific scripture do you have problem with?

and if you caught on to that , good, it is scripture.. for if the brother of Jesus quoted Enoch, the Desiple Thomas is scripture.. that is not questioned here.. this is not your class..this is unknowns class,and the material is allready the subject. So, what do you have problem with in the GOSPEL of Desiple Thomas ,picked by our Lord Jesus Christ?

Lots. Let me give you a run-down:

BoT said:
Thomas 3 Jesus said, "... Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

:nono: There are huge problems with this ideology. The 'kingdom' is not inside of men. Romans tells us all have fallen short. See John 15:5. Christ is not an 'enabler' for you to be all you can be. He is life and without Him there is no kingdom inside. Only a Christian, indwelled by the Holy Spirit becomes a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17 where the old has 'passed away.' So much for Jesus supposedly saying the kingdom is inside of you. It is a misquote of Luke 17:21 which says 'among' you or 'with you,' instead. Huge difference.

BoT said:
BoT 12) The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you will depart from us. Who is to be our leader?"
Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

:nono:
John 14:16-18&26 John 16:7&23

Shall I keep going?

unknown · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
You would think we are trying to study the fallen angel Lucifer here...

Maybe we need a thread for "why you shouldnt study the GOT"

so we can continue our study here..

I have noticed nobody has pointed to a specific saying from the GOT and showed us the error of the matter. I would think an intelligent Christian that has read the text and found an error would be quick to point it out. A4T did (for one saying she understood in a carnal (not spiritual)) way. If she can do it why can't others? I'm all for it myself. Let's see if they can show us something (who knows?).

Levolor · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
indeed I would be more ready for that one. Having been an understudy of Hermetic Order and of the Enochian study of the Kabbalah,

Demonoligist if you will

Then I would certainly learn more than I now know. And? do
I even want to!

Then again... there is this one individual... I would like to know what type of demon is influencing them.

unknown · Apr 28, 2014

JosephR said:
(36) Jesus said: Be not anxious from morning to evening and from evening to morning about what you shall put on.

It puts me in rememberance of "Seek ye first the kingdom of God......."

JosephR · Apr 29, 2014

Levolor said:
Then I would certainly learn more than I now know. And? do
I even want to!

Then again... there is this one individual... I would like to know what type of demon is influencing them.

ahh yes the types of demons vary, some even seek redemption..

some are pure evil. as per the Goetia and the lesser keys of Solomon.

All darkness however can be erased by the LIGHT that is truth...
but some choose darkness,and self preservation.Most only just want to be.But all of them should be left uncontacted, As YahWeh told His people, do not Contact the dead,because of coarse,there is a way to do so,or He would not have forbid it.

Lon · Apr 29, 2014

Levolor said:
That would be nice. Those so caught up in their denominational doctrine only wish to fight among themselves instead of having understanding one with another.

Where there is strife is every evil work. (James 3:16)

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another". Romans 14:19

Such does not mean to chase every wind and doctrine. If you'll read my first post in here, it was rather why the BoT is not in our canon (for very good reason) and why it is problematic for spiritual reading.

Intellectually? Go for it. The problem is: We have books that are from God for the purpose of teaching us and shaping our spirituality and then we have books that are not from God nor are scripture. There is a huge huge difference between scripture and any other writing. Only one is without error from God. Can you read other books? Absolutely. I simply want my caution to stand: The Book of Thomas is not scripture.

It is an important point to make because there are a few on TOL who will argue that it is (case in point) and do not recognize the huge huge difference. Once God is no longer your authority, you are no longer a legitimate child of God but a bastardized version of every religion trying to make sense of the world without God's input or under His authority. That, I must ever speak out against.

JosephR · Apr 29, 2014

Lon said:
Lots. Let me give you a run-down:

:nono: There are huge problems with this ideology. The 'kingdom' is not inside of men. Romans tells us all have fallen short. See John 15:5. Christ is not an 'enabler' for you to be all you can be. He is life and without Him there is no kingdom inside. Only a Christian, indwelled by the Holy Spirit becomes a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17 where the old has 'passed away.' So much for Jesus supposedly saying the kingdom is inside of you. It is a misquote of Luke 17:21 which says 'among' you or 'with you,' instead. Huge difference.

:nono:
John 14:16-18&26 John 16:7&23

Shall I keep going?

whats BoT?

Levolor · Apr 29, 2014

JosephR said:
(36) Jesus said: Be not anxious from morning to evening and from evening to morning about what you shall put on.

to me this at first screams of the saying,,the birds of the air do not sow nor reap yet the father DOES provide them food.

Matthew 6:26 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?

Part of the glorious Sermon on the Mount.

I so wish all could trust God so much:

25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. Matthew 6:25-34

How many trust God this much?

Of course all this is added to us when we FIRST seek God's kingdom and HIS righteousness. (Matthew 6:33)

JosephR · Apr 29, 2014

Lon said:
Lots. Let me give you a run-down:

:nono: There are huge problems with this ideology. The 'kingdom' is not inside of men. Romans tells us all have fallen short. See John 15:5. Christ is not an 'enabler' for you to be all you can be. He is life and without Him there is no kingdom inside. Only a Christian, indwelled by the Holy Spirit becomes a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17 where the old has 'passed away.' So much for Jesus supposedly saying the kingdom is inside of you. It is a misquote of Luke 17:21 which says 'among' you or 'with you,' instead. Huge difference.

:nono:
John 14:16-18&26 John 16:7&23

Shall I keep going?

notice most if not all of your discrepancies will fall with John, and John is the ONLY one who will call Thomas the doubter.... humm,,something more going on here?

I really didnt want to get into this strife between the author or followers of John and Thomas but if we must.. then we shall.

Lon · Apr 29, 2014

JosephR said:
whats BoT?

Just change it to GoT if you prefer. Don't get hung up on minutia.

JosephR said:
notice most if not all of your discrepancies will fall with John, and John is the ONLY one who will call Thomas the doubter.... humm,,something more going on here?

I really didnt want to get into this strife between the author or followers of John and Thomas but if we must.. then we shall.

:doh: You are assuming this letter if from Thomas. I'm assuming it isn't because of many points. No, it isn't just John but John comes more readily to my mind. If you'll recall, Luke and Paul were quoted there too.

JosephR · Apr 29, 2014

Lon said:
Just change it to GoT if you prefer. Don't get hung up on minutia.

No you are being disrespectful to one of the 12 our Lord Jesus Christ choose.. stop please.

JosephR · Apr 29, 2014

Lon said:
Just change it to GoT if you prefer. Don't get hung up on minutia.

:doh: You are assuming this letter if from Thomas. I'm assuming it isn't because of many points. No, it isn't just John but John comes more readily to my mind. If you'll recall, Luke and Paul were quoted there too.

please provide scripture,, JOHN IS THE ONLY ONE TO SAY THAT....

from here on out please provide scripture for your assumptions.

The Gospel Of Thomas

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