I never talk to Jesus or the Holy Spirit

[Hoping]

Jesus instructed the disciples to preach the gospel to the whole world, to Jews first at Jerusalem, then to Judaea, to Samaria, and finally to the Gentiles around the world.

You are answering a question I didn't ask.
The scriptures I sought were for..."just as baptism was designed to be a witness to Jews of Christ's institution of baptism in the Holy Spirit"
Where is it written that one would supplant the other?
The gift of the Holy Ghost is a reward and promise to those who turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

 

[Hoping]

Acts 8
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

The sign gifts were not done away until the Bible was finished and baptism as an outward testimony of an inward filling of the Holy Spirit is still with us today. But even though Philip baptized many in water, they did not all get saved and none of them were baptized in the Spirit at first, which is essential to salvation in the Church age.


Look closely at the passage and notice that the Gentiles did not get saved by baptism but were baptized after they were saved as a testimony of their inward cleansing by the baptism in the Holy Ghost.


You err. Water baptism was added later to the Holy Ghost baptism in Acts 10, not the reverse.


Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas were baptized after they were saved, but so what? Paul did not emphasize water baptism as necessary to salvation when he preached.

1 Corinthians 1

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

We have differing POV.
Salvation won't be assured till we hear our names are in the book of life.
To insist someone is already "saved" usurps the final judgment of God.

 

[Hoping]

Who is told to confess their sins for cleansing in 1 John?

John, in 1 John 1:9.
And not "for" cleansing, but before the cleansing of verse 7.

 

[Hoping]

Even if we assume John is a Jew instead of a Christian how is it true that saved Jews must continually confess their sins after conversion while saved Gentiles supposedly do not?

What do you mean by "is a Jew instead of a Christian"?
The first Christians were Jews !
They just weren't called that until later.

 

[marke]

You write as thought there were no more unbelievers.
I can't agree with you here.

God has turned away from the Jews who seek a sign and unto the whole world who must believe in Jesus without being given a sign.

Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

1 Corinthians 1:22
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom

1 Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Acts 13
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[marke]

What do you mean by "is a Jew instead of a Christian"?
The first Christians were Jews !
They just weren't called that until later.

OK. Were the sins of the Apostle John completely wiped away at salvation or did he have to continually confess his sins again over and over to obtain new cleansing?

 

[Hoping]

Moses' baptism in the cloud and in the sea was a type, according to 1 Corinthians 10. It was not meant to suggest that all those who were baptized with Moses in the cloud and the see got saved.

Yes, it was a type.
And only two, of the entire nation, went into the promised land...also a type.
Thankfully, we have now been given the gift of repentance, so we can remain without sin.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The best way to tell is written of in Rom 6:7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Did your way provide you with a life without sinning?
Mine did...thanks be to God.

There was a cult that used this very verse to commit mass murder (and/or suicide, I believe). (Or it was one person who killed some people, I don't remember the specifics, but they cited that very verse as their justification for doing what they did.) Their reasoning was correct, but their application was wrong. You're making a similar mistake. Your application is correct, but your reasoning is wrong.

Paul is saying that he who is physically dead, as in, no longer alive on this earth, is freed from sin, and He uses that reality as an analogy for a SPIRITUAL truth, how we are dead to sin SPIRITUALLY because we are dead to the law.

Do you see how that changes the meaning?

The only way we can be freed from sin is by literally dying, because then we are no longer under the law of this world, and therefore there is no condemnation to those who are no longer under the law. But as far as I can tell, neither you nor I are actually dead yet (unless you're claiming to be a zombie, in which case you might want to get that looked at...), and so we are NOT freed from sinning, despite being dead to sin.

Paul tells us, a few verses later in verse 11, to "consider yourselves dead to sin." What he DOESN'T say is "Consider yourselves unable to sin."

He's saying that sin no longer has power over us, because we are dead to the law in Christ, but alive to God.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. - Romans 6:12-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:12-14&version=NKJV

Verse 12 especially is, indirectly, telling us to resist sinning, not because you will always succeed, but because "in Christ we are more than conquerers," being no longer under the law, but under grace.

He doesn't say, "You will not sin any more," but rather "don't let sin have dominion over you." Sin will still be present, but don't let it rule your life.

 

[marke]

John, in 1 John 1:9.
And not "for" cleansing, but before the cleansing of verse 7.

You make a mistake by assuming God is bad at grammar. Verse 7 says if we walk in the light with Jesus then we will be cleansed from sin. Verse 9 says if we confess our sins we will be cleansed of sin. Verse 10 says if we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar.

I assume you interpret 1 John thusly:

We must first admit we have sinned.
We then must walk in the light to be cleansed of sin.
Finally, we must confess our sins to be cleansed of sin.

So what is the key point in that interpretation, that we must walk in the light to be saved or we must confess our sins to be saved? What happens if we confess our sins but do not walk in the light?

 

[Hoping]

It is an error to dismiss, ignore, or change the meaning of other passages so you can maintain support for your erroneous interpretation of one passage you seem particularly focused on.

I agree, but don't you feel that it is important to see the results of any interpretation?
Your reluctance to answer if Rom 6:7 was the result of your POV is illuminating.

This message is to those who have been saved by faith in Jesus on the basis of His shed blood to wash away their sins:
John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The message is indeed TO Christians, (though their salvation is still up to God at the final judgement), but it is about both those who walk in the light, God, and those who walk in darkness, sin.

 

[marke]

Yes, it was a type.
And only two, of the entire nation, went into the promised land...also a type.
Thankfully, we have now been given the gift of repentance, so we can remain without sin.

What did Paul mean by telling Christians that if they did not walk in the Spirit they would not be able to do right? Can Christians not do right while remaining free of sin?

Galatians 5
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[Hoping]

God has turned away from the Jews who seek a sign and unto the whole world who must believe in Jesus without being given a sign.

Matthew 16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

1 Corinthians 1:22
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom

1 Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Acts 13
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

There are still plenty of signs, if folks will just open their eyes.

 

[marke]

There are still plenty of signs, if folks will just open their eyes.

God no longer gives signs to help sinners to believe what He says, although He often gave signs in the OT.

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

[Hoping]

OK. Were the sins of the Apostle John completely wiped away at salvation or did he have to continually confess his sins again over and over to obtain new cleansing?

What sins?
Salvation will be given on the last day.
Those who have converted don't commit sins.
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18))
Sinning show they are still the children of the devil. (1 John 3:20)

 

[Hoping]

There was a cult that used this very verse to commit mass murder (and/or suicide, I believe). (Or it was one person who killed some people, I don't remember the specifics, but they cited that very verse as their justification for doing what they did.) Their reasoning was correct, but their application was wrong. You're making a similar mistake. Your application is correct, but your reasoning is wrong.

Paul is saying that he who is physically dead, as in, no longer alive on this earth, is freed from sin, and He uses that reality as an analogy for a SPIRITUAL truth, how we are dead to sin SPIRITUALLY because we are dead to the law.

Do you see how that changes the meaning?

The only way we can be freed from sin is by literally dying, because then we are no longer under the law of this world, and therefore there is no condemnation to those who are no longer under the law. But as far as I can tell, neither you nor I are actually dead yet (unless you're claiming to be a zombie, in which case you might want to get that looked at...), and so we are NOT freed from sinning, despite being dead to sin.

Paul tells us, a few verses later in verse 11, to "consider yourselves dead to sin." What he DOESN'T say is "Consider yourselves unable to sin."

He's saying that sin no longer has power over us, because we are dead to the law in Christ, but alive to God.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. - Romans 6:12-14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:12-14&version=NKJV

Verse 12 especially is, indirectly, telling us to resist sinning, not because you will always succeed, but because "in Christ we are more than conquerers," being no longer under the law, but under grace.

He doesn't say, "You will not sin any more," but rather "don't let sin have dominion over you." Sin will still be present, but don't let it rule your life.

The sinful act shows they condemned themselves unworthy of eternal life.

 

[Hoping]

You make a mistake by assuming God is bad at grammar. Verse 7 says if we walk in the light with Jesus then we will be cleansed from sin. Verse 9 says if we confess our sins we will be cleansed of sin.

As there is no sin in God, who is the light, our confession, and cleansing, must happen prior to our walk in Him.

Verse 10 says if we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar.

True, as (nearly) all have committed sin.
Lots of doctrines out there make sin less than sin. They change the name of sin to something else, or dismiss it as unimportant, all in a failed attempt to include darkness, sin, into God, who is the light.

I assume you interpret 1 John thusly:
We must first admit we have sinned.

Yes.

We then must walk in the light to be cleansed of sin.

No, as our admission of sin and cleansing happen beforehand, by the blood of Christ at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Finally, we must confess our sins to be cleansed of sin.

Confession happens first.
Cleansing is second'
The walk in the light, God, is the result.

So what is the key point in that interpretation, that we must walk in the light to be saved or we must confess our sins to be saved? What happens if we confess our sins but do not walk in the light?

The walk in God, who is the light, is essential for salvation.
Stay in the light, and you won't commit more sin.
The children of the devil, sinners, need to permanently turn from sin, and get washed by the blood of Christ so they can start their walk alongside God's children.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Were these people in this group you call "The Circumcision" saved or lost?

Why are you trying to mix dispensations?

Salvation under the New Covenant (which the Circumcision were under (yes, "were," as there is no "Circumcision" today)

Are you suggesting that Jews who turn to Jesus for salvation cannot have their sins washed away like others who get saved?

Again, mixing dispensations will only cause confusion.

Under the dispensation of the New Covenant, Jews (and proselytes) had to "endure to the end" by keeping the law. That included repenting and asking for forgiveness for every sin. Their salvation was Christ's return, though every single person under the New Covenant died before His return (since they all died roughly 1900-2000 years ago, and Christ has yet to return). Christ WILL return when the "Fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Their salvation is yet future. They await His return in Heaven.

Those who did not endure, even until they died would not have their sins washed away.

Once God cut off unbelieving Israel in Acts 9, He stopped accepting people into the New Covenant. anyone who had faith, in spite of their adherance to the New Covenant, AFTER Paul's conversion, would be saved and put into the Body of Christ, and NOT the New Covenant.

OK. Were the sins of the Apostle John completely wiped away at salvation

Still mixing dispensations. John was placed under the New Covenant, because He believed Christ was His Messiah. He died under the New Covenant, not Paul's Gospel of Grace. (Note: I'm NOT saying that he died before Paul's conversion, I'm saying that he was under different house rules than Paul and the Body of Christ. It's not a statement of "when" he died, it's a statement of "what house rules was he under" at the point of his death.) In other words, NO ONE was transferred from the New Covenant to the Body of Christ. They are two separate entities.

I would imagine John was able to endure to the end of his life, awaiting his salvation, that being Christ's return.

or did he have to continually confess his sins again over and over to obtain new cleansing?

This is the case. The command was to "endure to the end" by Jesus. The end did not come during their lifetime, therefore they had to endure even to the end of their lives.

 

[Hoping]

What did Paul mean by telling Christians that if they did not walk in the Spirit they would not be able to do right?

Though Paul's writings are for everyone, not just Christians, that is correct.

Can Christians not do right while remaining free of sin?

Men can not do "right" if they walk in the flesh.
But if they walk in the Spirit instead, all their deeds will have been done for the glory of God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

As there is no sin in God, who is the light, our confession, and cleansing, must happen prior to our walk in Him.

There is indeed no sin in God, but there is still sin in us. Otherwise Paul would not have said: "Do not let sin reign in your bodies... sin won't have dominion over you because you are under grace, not law."

 

[Hoping]

God no longer gives signs to help sinners to believe what He says, although He often gave signs in the OT.

Matthew 12:39
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Yet, Jesus gave the OT Jews the sign of Jonas, so your POV is not quite correct.