When "BLM" doesn't matter...

[eider]

ballistics and other forensics will have to tell this story. He says his was not the gun, BUT it is still all part of this marching madness and irresponsibility...............................

Having noticed this post I looked firther, and have read that 19-year-old Julian Conley has been arrested on suspicion after a car either at, in or approaching a road block was fired upon by people weilding AR15 fast-fire rifles.
8 yr old Secoriea Turner was in tghe vehicle with her family and killed by gunshots.
And I noticed that, earlier, you wanted to defend the ownership of such weapons, the usual 'we got rights' stuff with 'guns do kill' attachment kind of thing. Have I got this right?

When are you people going to figure out that military-style weapons are not sporting guns, do not need to be possessed by civilians and should never be available to them? And any other guns should only be allowed if the holder has taken suitable training courses, passed tests, been cleared in a criminal record check, holds a valid licence, holds valid insurance for all third party risks, has a reasonably secured home and and keeps all guns locked in a safe.

 

[ok doser]

Mr Floyd was an innocent man ...

Nope.

Certainly not innocent of driving while under the influence of illegal narcotics. Certainly not innocent of resisting arrest.

... murdered by policemen.

Nope again.

Murder requires intent. There's no reason to believe that the four policemen involved in his detention intended to kill him.

Rather the autopsy shows that he did not choke to death but that he suffered an episode of heart failure, undoubtedly precipitated by the stress of being detained and exacerbated by the illegal narcotics that he had on board.

 

[Lon]

'They'........ You want to turn a whole demonstration in to a mass of criminals, it seems.
Protesting people are not criminals.

No permits? Its illegal thus criminal. Blocking streets? Criminal. The criminals on the shirttails? Makes them complicit in murder, theft, and destruction.

I don't know what your country does, in our's its against the law.

If you do away with trials and Courts you get a Police State. YOu sure would be screaming then, I reckon.

:nono: We'd be simply giving them better checks and balances to keep them Democratic. We are a democratic republic but you'd never know that, because they have messed up our nation by 'police state' mandates.

But in any case, no....... Mr Floyd was a Rehabilitated offender, and had (in all probability) not committed any crime on the occasion that he was held and murdered. When shop staff let a person complete a purchase and then leave it's usually either them or the shop management that are committing the crime. I've caught a few shops doing that, to get rid of bad notes that they have either taken or want to cleanse....

No evidence of rehabilitation, just wishful thinking on your part.

Oh dear........ Demonstrations and Protests banned by Lon...... all protesters will be arrested as thugs! Good luck with that, Lon, 'cos you've just shattered your own Constitution and replaced it with a police-state.

#1) it is already being done, fines exactly at the $500 and 30 days in jail. "Oh dear!" :noway: #2) it is not against the constitution. We have a right to peaceably assemble. There are PLENTY of law-abiding marches with all the permits and 100% legal. You don't live here, so of course you support and advocate the criminal ones that overturn cars and kill babies. I'm ashamed of these people. They are in no way the best this country has to offer and are indeed criminals.

In which case you won't mind if Protesters and Demonstrators carry guns with them for protection, which is what started happening in Portland, we hear, when forces started to act violently against innocent demonstrators.
You want 'Right to carry guns' etc but that would be just for you, eh?

Er, just like any criminal activity, criminals will amp up their criminality.

I agree with James 1 then, Lon, you need to Listen to the people, be slow to speak, slow to anger ..........
Because your view as shown above is so out of sync with what so many in the World think that maybe you should think again?

The man above, a black man, crying about the life of his dead baby angers me. Yeah, I'm slow. It took that to get me incredibly angry.

Instead of staying home and being silent for what these criminal protestors have done, and are complicit in doing, they boldly march against the very terms of their chant where that little baby doesn't matter, but a seasoned criminal's does, to the loss of life, property, peaceful legal gathering, and loss of many innocent lives and putting many others in danger with the negligent spread of this virus. It is unconscionable.

Mr Floyd was an innocent man, murdered by policemen.

Incorrect on both counts, and a lie for it. He was a criminal and was killed by ONE (1) policeman. Read Doser's post above. Media, acting like gossip mongers, never interview Floyd's family to find out what they wanted, they just used the opportunity, like the gossip rags they have become, to fan anger and sit back and watch what happened so they can gossip irresponsibly about the affer-effect of their own making. They should be fined, not for 'free speech' but for irresponsible complicit damage they are doing to this country.

Dupes like you (not mean, just that you have uncritically become one of the duped masses by an irresponsible gossiping press thus are part of the problem and fodder for their inept goading), need to think first and act later, like the verse above says.

So you feel that you are part of 'the majority'?
I've had the impression (before) that you feel somewhat distanced from 'the majority' Lon.
Anyway, just now I don't think you're with 'the majority' about BLM. It's not just in the US, Lon.......... it's become a movement around the World.
Please don't tell me that you need 'Years to figure out 'why' the World is moving this way'.

Dupe and majority by morality are two different things. If you truly believe you and the world are justified to have babies dead by impotent cowards, then I'm not part of 'that' majority, no. The majority are NOT in the streets. The majority are staying home taking care of their families and doing the right thing.

 

[Lon]

When are you people going to figure out that military-style weapons are not sporting guns, do not need to be possessed by civilians and should never be available to them? And any other guns should only be allowed if the holder has taken suitable training courses, passed tests, been cleared in a criminal record check, holds a valid licence, holds valid insurance for all third party risks, has a reasonably secured home and and keeps all guns locked in a safe.

Totally different thread, but I agree, criminals should not be allowed guns.

When babies' lives matter, black babies' lives (or any other) over and above what frenzy media works up and whatever lame reason to march away from 'cabin fever' in the guise of some noble purpose, when babies' lives matter, and when people stop doing horrible things illegally and shamefully, when and if that becomes the 'majority' then I'll be part of the majority. However, the majority of us did NONE of these things. Some 1 in 100 windows carry BLM. The rest of us may believe it, but we are careful not to be media dupes. By the numbers, the 'majority' of us are moral, legal, responsible, and not involved in criminal activity.

 

[ok doser]

... (Floyd) was killed by ONE (1) policeman.

We'll see what the courts have to say but all 4 are charged. I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy reveals that the impact of the middle policeman was more important in precipitating Floyd's medical crisis. That knee would have been on his chest and would have been potentially more stressful than the knee on his neck.

 

[ok doser]

Mr Floyd was a Rehabilitated offender ...

a "Rehabilitated offender" who was using illegal narcotics and driving under the influence

perhaps not all that "Rehabilitated" after all, eh?

 

[eider]

No permits? Its illegal thus criminal. Blocking streets? Criminal. The criminals on the shirttails? Makes them complicit in murder, theft, and destruction.

I don't know what your country does, in our's its against the law.

:nono: We'd be simply giving them better checks and balances to keep them Democratic. We are a democratic republic but you'd never know that, because they have messed up our nation by 'police state' mandates.

The majority of the World sees most of these protests quite differently to you, Lon.
Where villains take advantage of these (or any) situations to do bad things then with any luck your system WILL be able to identify and prosecute them from CCTV footage. At any rate, in my country that's what would happen, but maybe we have a higher concentration of cameras compared to the US.

No evidence of rehabilitation, just wishful thinking on your part.

Mr Floyd had a job, was paying his way, had been part of a church group (I have read).

#1) it is already being done, fines exactly at the $500 and 30 days in jail. "Oh dear!" :noway: #2) it is not against the constitution. We have a right to peaceably assemble. There are PLENTY of law-abiding marches with all the permits and 100% legal. You don't live here, so of course you support and advocate the criminal ones that overturn cars and kill babies. I'm ashamed of these people. They are in no way the best this country has to offer and are indeed criminals.

Er, just like any criminal activity, criminals will amp up their criminality.

As you have already written there are PLENTY of law-abiding marches and protests at this time.

The man above, a black man, crying about the life of his dead baby angers me. Yeah, I'm slow. It took that to get me incredibly angry.

Instead of staying home and being silent for what these criminal protestors have done, and are complicit in doing, they boldly march against the very terms of their chant where that little baby doesn't matter, but a seasoned criminal's does, to the loss of life, property, peaceful legal gathering, and loss of many innocent lives and putting many others in danger with the negligent spread of this virus. It is unconscionable.

The Police have made an arrest I think, and soon will have some others.

Incorrect on both counts, and a lie for it.

Untrue.

He was a criminal and was killed by ONE (1) policeman.

He was a rehabilitated offender. He served his sentence and was free.
He did not commit any crime, either.
So why will there be three trials?

Read Doser's post above. Media, acting like gossip mongers, never interview Floyd's family to find out what they wanted, they just used the opportunity, like the gossip rags they have become, to fan anger and sit back and watch what happened so they can gossip irresponsibly about the affer-effect of their own making. They should be fined, not for 'free speech' but for irresponsible complicit damage they are doing to this country.

I can't even see that member's posts, thank heavens.

Dupes like you (not mean, just that you have uncritically become one of the duped masses by an irresponsible gossiping press thus are part of the problem and fodder for their inept goading), need to think first and act later, like the verse above says.

Oh, there's a whole World of flocks of Dupes then.
You can't slow this movement now.

Dupe and majority by morality are two different things. If you truly believe you and the world are justified to have babies dead by impotent cowards, then I'm not part of 'that' majority, no. The majority are NOT in the streets. The majority are staying home taking care of their families and doing the right thing.

Emotional rants like this cannot hide how the World feels at this time. Where stupid teenagers can hold of military style fast fire weapons and carry them in the streets then dreadful situations like the above will happen. The law must handle what those stupid teenagers did with their legally held weapons. CRazy business.

 

[eider]

Totally different thread, but I agree, criminals should not be allowed guns.

No......... a girl shot in a moving vehicle is about guns as well as teenage crazies.
Better gun laws.... I think.

When babies' lives matter, black babies' lives (or any other) over and above what frenzy media works up and whatever lame reason to march away from 'cabin fever' in the guise of some noble purpose, when babies' lives matter, and when people stop doing horrible things illegally and shamefully, when and if that becomes the 'majority' then I'll be part of the majority. However, the majority of us did NONE of these things. Some 1 in 100 windows carry BLM. The rest of us may believe it, but we are careful not to be media dupes. By the numbers, the 'majority' of us are moral, legal, responsible, and not involved in criminal activity.

I think the whole movement is about stopping people from doing horrid things.
There doesn't have to be a BLM sticker in windows, Lon........ although at this time we in the UK are putting rainbow pictures up in our widows, I see quite a lot of these in our road. That covers just about everything where I live.

 

[ok doser]

I think the whole movement is about stopping people from doing horrid things.

They're doing it wrong

 

[Lon]

We'll see what the courts have to say but all 4 are charged. I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy reveals that the impact of the middle policeman was more important in precipitating Floyd's medical crisis. That knee would have been on his chest and would have been potentially more stressful than the knee on his neck.

Retraining, but not for these 4?

 

[Lon]

a "Rehabilitated offender" who was using illegal narcotics and driving under the influence

perhaps not all that "Rehabilitated" after all, eh?

I'm not sure, what was he 'rehabilitated' from? Eider strongly believes it, but how? Did his criminal record suddenly stop? While snopes downplays many of Floyd's crimes, he was involved in a violent crime just 2 years prior and meth was definitely in his system, violating his parole.

 

[ok doser]

Eider strongly believes it ...

And this is what replaces evidence, logic and reason in the minds of the developmentally delayed like eider and artie - a strong emotional belief.

This is why I refer to them as retarded. This is why it is folly to engage them in a conversation that uses evidence, logic and reason. To communicate with them you really can't go beyond emotion. In terms of intellectual development they are children.

In the case of George Floyd the news media coverage has implanted into their psyches a strong emotional connection to the poor fellow, impervious to any attempts to nuance his history, his behavior, his situation.

 

[Lon]

The majority of the World sees most of these protests quite differently to you, Lon.
Where villains take advantage of these (or any) situations to do bad things then with any luck your system WILL be able to identify and prosecute them from CCTV footage. At any rate, in my country that's what would happen, but maybe we have a higher concentration of cameras compared to the US./QUOTE]
All demonstrations in the U.S. without a permit, are illegal.

Mr Floyd had a job, was paying his way, had been part of a church group (I have read).

With Meth in his system??? :nono: That is not rehabilitated and is a major violation of his parole.

As you have already written there are PLENTY of law-abiding marches and protests at this time.

You misunderstood. The lawful ones in the past all had permits and had filed for them. ALL these protesters know that people have died and been harmed in every prior, illegal march, up to this time. All of them. They are complicit thus responsible for that precious little girl and boy who died. They are responsible for buildings and property destroyed, and they are responsible for the looting because their actions were the platform for it and the enabling of all these crimes.

The Police have made an arrest I think, and soon will have some others.

ALL of them could have been arrested and fined.

Untrue.

Read above including the link. What you WANT to be true and what IS true are two different things. You HAVE to believe this way or your whole sentiment has the lives of these tiny people involved with it.

He was a rehabilitated offender. He served his sentence and was free.
He did not commit any crime, either.
So why will there be three trials?

Trials are not guilt. Trials are to DETERMINE guilt.

I can't even see that member's posts, thank heavens.

Bacially the same as the link here given.

Oh, there's a whole World of flocks of Dupes then.
You can't slow this movement now.

I know, not even the death of babies while they continue the madness without even an iota of empathy and staying silent for the deaths they are complicit in causing. '
I'm not 'proud' I'm ashamed.

Emotional rants like this cannot hide how the World feels at this time. Where stupid teenagers can hold of military style fast fire weapons and carry them in the streets then dreadful situations like the above will happen. The law must handle what those stupid teenagers did with their legally held weapons. CRazy business.

MY kids can shoot. MY kids were nowhere near these marches nor babies. MY kids are against deaths and believe innocent lives matter. YOUR kids, by these irresponsible sentiments of yours are what killed babies, resulted in damage, harm, and looting. ONE of us irresponsible and complicit in the harm. One of us is not.

 

[Lon]

No......... a girl shot in a moving vehicle is about guns as well as teenage crazies.
Better gun laws.... I think.

:nono: Any country with a 3-D printer has guns. Laws cannot stop guns.

I think the whole movement is about stopping people from doing horrid things.

Good, but if it is complicit in doing MORE horrid things, then it isn't really for that, on paper and especially in action.

There doesn't have to be a BLM sticker in windows, Lon........ although at this time we in the UK are putting rainbow pictures up in our widows, I see quite a lot of these in our road. That covers just about everything where I live.

This thread is about two wrongs NEVER making a right. There is no question something is wrong. Killing, harming, destroying, breaking the law, nor any irresponsible behavior is the answer. "BLM" in your window? Fine but if I'd placed one, I'd have to take it down for the shame of the death of these babies. I will not be complicit in that.

 

[ok doser]

... meth was definitely in his system ...

Meth and fentanyl - its the new speedball - remember John Belushi?

 

[Lon]

And this is what replaces evidence, logic and reason in the minds of the developmentally delayed like eider and artie - a strong emotional belief.

This is why I refer to them as retarded. This is why it is folly to engage them in a conversation that uses evidence, logic and reason. To communicate with them you really can't go beyond emotion. In terms of intellectual development they are children.

I think I get where they are coming from, when it comes to mistreating another because of color. When I was in Texas, blacks weren't treated great, but because of laws, they weren't mistreated. This was not true of the Mexicans working on green cards. While I was foreman, I stopped a lot of this misbehavior, but I could stop it all. When someone was hurt on the job, they went to a private physician on their own dime and the company didn't take care of them because it was not made to do so. It was wrong.

While I somewhat support BLM, I don't support their illegal actions, or those actions that have very young children dying. This movement is worthy of better heads and need legal permits as well as plans on what to do when violent looters and vandals invariably show up. In a movement about lives mattering, lives need to matter.

In the case of George Floyd the news media coverage has implanted into their psyches a strong emotional connection to the poor fellow, impervious to any attempts to nuance his history, his behavior, his situation.

Would that some movement would issue from the death of these young children.

One reporter says (rightly) that this isn't about Black Lives mattering but about a hatred for Trump and police in general in Portland (the article warns of language but I only saw it censored).

Would that we'd have organized legal marching for the lives of these young children and those children who have died, against these illegal riots, thefts, and destruction.

There is a cheerleading section from all over the world for these demonstrations, and in principle, good, but without the legal, meaningful, organized direction, they've become the 2nd of two wrongs. This is not the right way to do things and upon the death of so many innocent lives, I cannot add my name to this movement. It is destructive, violent, illegal, and misguided when it lifts up criminal lives for its platform and ignores the lost lives of babies, and is irresponsible for the thugs and other criminals killing people on their shirt tails.

A well-organized and well-thought-out movement would have kept these violent, destructive results far away.

 

[eider]

All demonstrations in the U.S. without a permit, are illegal.

So much for Free Speech and Freedom of Expression in America, then.
........... if I believe what you say, that is.

With Meth in his system??? :nono: That is not rehabilitated and is a major violation of his parole.

You seem to cling to any claims that might help to show that Mr Floyd was bad. You seem to forget/discard claims about his rehabilitation and the past records of those police officers. That looks strange.....

You misunderstood. The lawful ones in the past all had permits and had filed for them. ALL these protesters know that people have died and been harmed in every prior, illegal march, up to this time. All of them. They are complicit thus responsible for that precious little girl and boy who died. They are responsible for buildings and property destroyed, and they are responsible for the looting because their actions were the platform for it and the enabling of all these crimes.

I don't believe that for a moment. Many of the marches, demonstrations and movements that changed your country forever were certainly not issued with anything .......... I'm thinking iof the Civil Rights movement.

ALL of them could have been arrested and fined.

You wanted the teenagers who shot in to that vehicle to be arrested and fined?
They wouldn't get fined, Lon, they'd get tried for a much more serious crime than attract fines. They still will be, I reckon.

Read above including the link. What you WANT to be true and what IS true are two different things. You HAVE to believe this way or your whole sentiment has the lives of these tiny people involved with it.

I am an onlooker. I will read any COMPLETE incident descriptions which you may have........ COMPLETE.

Trials are not guilt. Trials are to DETERMINE guilt.

Wrong. Totally twisted idea.
Trials are to determine guilt........ or innocence!
Get it right.

I know, not even the death of babies while they continue the madness without even an iota of empathy and staying silent for the deaths they are complicit in causing. '
I'm not 'proud' I'm ashamed.

The World will not stop in its determination because of the stupid and dreadful actions of a few youths armed with legal guns who were not trained, tested before they were allowed to have them. And they almost certainly won;'t be insured for 3rd party risks.
You should be ashamed, because you've all let this guns-awash situation continue...... the usual excuse is so that Americans can defend themselves against any wicked government that arises............. but you feel that groups should apply for permits to demonstrate.

MY kids can shoot. MY kids were nowhere near these marches nor babies. MY kids are against deaths and believe innocent lives matter.

Your kids have almost certainly not taken part in any mandatory training, testing, do not carry 3rd party liability insurance, their hiomes were not inspected and passed as reasonably secure for guns., they haven't got approved safes for guns, and more. Am I right?

YOUR kids, by these irresponsible sentiments of yours are what killed babies, resulted in damage, harm, and looting. ONE of us irresponsible and complicit in the harm. One of us is not.

Lon........ when have you ever insisted upon the automatic and free provision for subsistence, welfare, education and medicare for all American children to adulthood?

I don't know about the incident that killed that girl. I don't know exactly what happened. I don't know why she and her family were in a vehicle, or what they were doing.
Would you like to show exactly what happened?

 

[eider]

Totally different thread, but I agree, criminals should not be allowed guns.

You agree with the bits that suit you.
You don't seem to support good training, testing, 3rd party insurance, licencing, home security checks and gun safes.
So many minors die because the above does not happen.....

Now let's move on, bearing the above in mind.

When babies' lives matter, black babies' lives (or any other) .............................when babies' lives matter, .....

When 'All lives matter, actually, but since so many Black people die unlawfully I think the BLM logo counts, and so does most of the Western World.

. However, the majority of us did NONE of these things.

In as much as thee let it happen.......

Some 1 in 100 windows carry BLM. The rest of us may believe it, but we are careful not to be media dupes. By the numbers, the 'majority' of us are moral, egal, responsible, and not involved in criminal activity.

That's what folks do..... they all insist on how decent and lawful they are. But just now demonstrations over Mr Floyd's murder are even happening in EUROPE!


So I looked in to your references about the death of Secoriea Turner...... did you write her name? Or did you just want to focus upon words like 'baby'?
...And I was sickened over what I found out. Disgusted!
No wonder the area around that burger restuarant was picketed!
You neglected to tell me about how this filth got started!

1. A man (Mr Brooks) doesn't want to drink/drive so parks his car up and sleeps.
2. The manager (I do wonder about this manager!) doesn't like him sleeping in his car park so calls the cops. Probably ups the ante by saying his car is blocking a drive. I don't believe that or the manager would have asked Mr Brooks to move his car himself.
3. A policeman (Brosnan) arrives, speaks to Mr Brooks and ask him to repark his car. He calls for a Cop who can test for alcohol.
4. Officer Rolfe arrives, discovers Mr Brooks is over the limit, therefore was in charge of a vehicle, not DUI. Where I live all that cop had to do was tell Mr Brookes that he had to attend the local Police Station for a more accurate test and ask him to get in the police car. That's IT! If Mr Brookes had run away he would have been banned from driving (and some other minor crimes) for refusing a test. He was and non-violent, asked if he could walk to his sisters place nearby, and the police knew his identity.
5. But NOooooo! They escalated it up, wanted to handcuff him from behind, He resisted..... they pulled tasers (on what had been a controllable situation) and when Mr Brookes took a taser and ran Officer Rolfe shot three shots at Mr Brookes, killing him and hitting another vehicle with three people in it!
6. An easy situation turned in to a killing...... so much for your cops, Lon.

So we have a Cop shooting wildly and hitting an innocent packed vehicle, and a stupid bunch of idiots doing the same some time later.

Tell me.... Lon....... if Officer Rolfe had hit a 'baby' in that innocent car, would you have ever mentioned a word about that?
You want the whole BLM movement to falter and die imo, and you are using a dreadful incident caused by untrained, untested, unlicensed, uninsured idiots in your attempts to stop the World putting itself right about racist bigotry and crime.

 

[ok doser]

1. A man (Mr Brooks) doesn't want to drink/drive so parks his car up and sleeps.

:darwinsm:

Deliberately dishonest or retarded? It's so hard to choose.

Lon

Do you see why I won't engage this moron?

 

[ok doser]

Now, for those who are interested in comparing eider's lies to the truth:

On the night of June 12, 2020, Rayshard Brooks, a 27-year-old African American man, was fatally shot by Atlanta Police Department (APD) officer Garrett Rolfe. Fellow officer Devin Brosnan had responded to a complaint that Brooks was asleep in a car blocking a restaurant drive-through lane; Rolfe arrived after Brosnan radioed for assistance some minutes later. After a breathalyzer exam indicated that Brooks's blood-alcohol content was above the legal limit for driving, Rolfe and Brosnan began to handcuff Brooks. Brooks scuffled with the officers, got hold of Brosnan's taser, punched Rolfe, and ran. With Rolfe pursuing him, Brooks half-turned and fired the taser toward Rolfe, who then shot Brooks twice from behind while a third shot struck an occupied car. wiki