Proposition: There Is No Compelling Argument For A Future Antichrist.

[JAGG]

Says Dr. Loraine Boettner

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . .
which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in
the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader
search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,
without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."
The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210

The Bible mentions Antichrist in only the following 4 verses:
1 John 2:18
1John 2:22
1 John 4:3
2 John 7

There is no compelling argument for a future Antichrist because . . . .

There is no compelling argument that connects these 4 verses with
anything said in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation.

For example:
There is no evidence that the "man of sin" or the "man of lawlessness"
mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3 is connected in any way with the antichrists
mentioned in the 4 verses in John's epistles.


Also note the following from John's epistles that mention antichrist:

(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century
1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"
In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as
first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they
did not really belong to us."

(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the
Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the
Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.

(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does
not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is
already in the world" (of the first century).

(4) 2 John 7 says that the antichrist is many deceivers that have gone
out in the world (of the first century.) Therefore this verse says that
there are many antichrists, not just one antichrist.

What say you?

`

 

[Bradley D]

There are many antichrist's today as there were at the beginning of the church. The antichristos is an opponent of the Messiah.

When referring to a future antichrist I believe they may be referring to the "beast" in Revelations.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy" (Rev. 13:1).

Why they refer to the "beast" as the antichrist I do not know.

 

[Aimiel]

Little Horn, Lawless One, Man of Sin, Son of Perdition, 'that Wicked,' Antichrist and: Beast. He's called by many names. Paul said, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

Scripture describes him in detail, beginning in the seventh, eighth and eleventh chapters of Daniel, several places in the New Testament, not the least of which is Revelation. The 'Beast' of Revelation is obviously the Antichrist. He'll have great power and for a very short time will rule the whole earth, able to subdue all. In that day the price of salvation will be: martyrdom. The very first mention of him in Daniel makes it painfully clear that he will appear in the Last Days.

Before he appears, there will come a 'falling away,' which I don't see happening yet. I see the beginnings of it, in the way that many churches teach that queers, adulterers and whatever pet sin they couch is just fine with God; but I believe that it will infest more than the few that have been deceived to date before the Antichrist believes that he can fool mankind the way that he did when he drew a large group of angels away from Truth. I don't fear him any more than I fear Wuhan Flu or anything that men might be able to do to

 

[JAGG]

I am going to take a close look at
1 John 2: 18-19

`​

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. ___
1 John 2:18-19

`​

Note the particulars from
1 John 2:18-19
`

(1) "this is the last hour" That compellingly refers ONLY to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It could not refer to the year 950 A.D.

Or to the year 1200 A.D.

Or to the year 1880 A.D.

Or to the year 2018 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Could the people who lived say 200 years ago, have correctly said "this is the last hour" refers to our time period? No of course not.
`
(2) "even NOW many antichrists have come"

The "NOW" refers to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1100 A.D.

Or to the year 1680 A.D.

Or to the year 1760 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Could the people who lived say 300 years ago, have correctly said that "even NOW many antichrists have come"? No, of course not.
`

(3) "MANY antichrists have come."

"Many is plural. There were many antichrists that had ALREADY come in the

time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1000 A.D.

Or to the year 1480 A.D.

Or to the year 1260 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"Many antichrists have come" (they were living THEN at the time John wrote this verse.)
`

(4) "They went out from us. but they did not belong to us"

This compellingly is a reference to the first century, when John wrote 1 John.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 850 A.D.

Or to the year 1380 A.D.

Or to the year 1860 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"They went out from us" means they went out from the Apostles who wrote that. It cannot be interpreted to refer to a future time.

______________


Just that up there alone demonstrates that there is no future "antichrist" mentioned in John's epistles. See the Opening Post for additional arguments from John's 4 brief mentions of antichrist in his epistles.

 

[oatmeal]

I am going to take a close look at
1 John 2: 18-19

`​

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. ___
1 John 2:18-19

`​

Note the particulars from
1 John 2:18-19
`

(1) "this is the last hour" That compellingly refers ONLY to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It could not refer to the year 950 A.D.

Or to the year 1200 A.D.

Or to the year 1880 A.D.

Or to the year 2018 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Could the people who lived say 200 years ago, have correctly said "this is the last hour" refers to our time period? No of course not.
`
(2) "even NOW many antichrists have come"

The "NOW" refers to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1100 A.D.

Or to the year 1680 A.D.

Or to the year 1760 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Could the people who lived say 300 years ago, have correctly said that "even NOW many antichrists have come"? No, of course not.
`

(3) "MANY antichrists have come."

"Many is plural. There were many antichrists that had ALREADY come in the

time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1000 A.D.

Or to the year 1480 A.D.

Or to the year 1260 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"Many antichrists have come" (they were living THEN at the time John wrote this verse.)
`

(4) "They went out from us. but they did not belong to us"

This compellingly is a reference to the first century, when John wrote 1 John.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 850 A.D.

Or to the year 1380 A.D.

Or to the year 1860 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"They went out from us" means they went out from the Apostles who wrote that. It cannot be interpreted to refer to a future time.

______________


Just that up there alone demonstrates that there is no future "antichrist" mentioned in John's epistles. See the Opening Post for additional arguments from John's 4 brief mentions of antichrist in his epistles.

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the is coming

Contrast the phrase, "the antichrist" with the phrase found in the same verse:

even now many antichrists have come.

A clear distinction is made between "the antichrist" that is coming

and

the "many antichrists have come"

Yes, there are antichrists now but there is a "the anitchrist" who is coming

 

[oatmeal]

Says Dr. Loraine Boettner

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . .
which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in
the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader
search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,
without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."
The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210

The Bible mentions Antichrist in only the following 4 verses:
1 John 2:18
1John 2:22
1 John 4:3
2 John 7

There is no compelling argument for a future Antichrist because . . . .

There is no compelling argument that connects these 4 verses with
anything said in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation.

For example:
There is no evidence that the "man of sin" or the "man of lawlessness"
mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3 is connected in any way with the antichrists
mentioned in the 4 verses in John's epistles.


Also note the following from John's epistles that mention antichrist:

(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century
1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"
In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as
first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they
did not really belong to us."

(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the
Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the
Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.

(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does
not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is
already in the world" (of the first century).

(4) 2 John 7 says that the antichrist is many deceivers that have gone
out in the world (of the first century.) Therefore this verse says that
there are many antichrists, not just one antichrist.

What say you?

`

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

She is wrong.

"the antichrist" is coming

although "even now many antichrists have come"

 

[JAGG]

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

She is wrong.

"the antichrist" is coming

although "even now many antichrists have come"

Dr. Loraine Boettner is a he.

And he is right, not wrong.

​

Contrast the phrase, "the antichrist" with the phrase found in the same verse:​

A clear distinction is made between "the antichrist" that is coming​

and​

the "many antichrists have come"​

Yes, there are antichrists now but there is a "the anitchrist" who is coming​

Thanks for your comments.

The text does NOT say there is a clear distinction in "the antichrist" and in the "many antichrists have come."

They could reasonably be a reference to the same first century Christian apostates.

To have a compelling argument on this you would need for John to make it clear and certain that he was making
a clear distinction between a future antichrist yet to come, and the already existing antichrists that were living in
the first century when John wrote his epistles.

John does NOT make that distinction clear.

Instead, ALL the evidence inside John's epistles point to many antichrists living in the first century when John
wrote his epistles.

The context of all the mentions of antichrist in John's epistles demand that they were first century apostates.

See 1 John 4:3 where John says clearly that the spirit of "the antichrist" . . . "even NOW is ALREADY in the world."

There is not so much as a slight shred of clear certain evidence, inside John's epistles, that say there will be a future.
antichrist. All the evidence, in John's epistles, demonstrate that the antichrist(s) lived in the first century and were
Christian apostates.

My view is that so far the following stand unrefuted.​

(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century​

1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"​

In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as ​

first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they​

did not really belong to us." ​

(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the​

Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the​

Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.​

(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does​

not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is​

already in the world" (of the first century).​

(4) 2 John 7 says that the antichrist is many deceivers that have gone​

out in the world (of the first century.) Therefore this verse says that​

there are many antichrists, not just one antichrist.​

Again, see 1 John 4:3 where John says clearly that the spirit of "the antichrist" . . . "even NOW is ALREADY in the world."

____________


Also there is NOT a shred of evidence anywhere in the bible that connects the
antichrist mentioned in John's epistles with any other Biblical character that the
Premillennialists claim is the antichrist, for example "the man of sin", the "false
prophet", the "beast" of Revelation, etc

Instead of presenting clear arguments, mere claims and mere proclamations are
presented.

For example, my name is John Premillennial and I strongly desire for the antichrists
mentioned in John to be the "man of sin: mentioned by Paul, therefore I, John Premillennial,
issue a proclamation that says they are the same.

___________



My view is the following still stands unrefuted:​

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . . ​

which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in​

the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader​

search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.​

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,​

without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."​

The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210​

 

[oatmeal]

Dr. Loraine Boettner is a he.

And he is right, not wrong.

Thanks for your comments.

The text does NOT say there is a clear distinction in "the antichrist" and in the "many antichrists have come."

They could reasonably be a reference to the same first century Christian apostates.

To have a compelling argument on this you would need for John to make it clear and certain that he was making
a clear distinction between a future antichrist yet to come, and the already existing antichrists that were living in
the first century when John wrote his epistles.

John does NOT make that distinction clear.

Instead, ALL the evidence inside John's epistles point to many antichrists living in the first century when John
wrote his epistles.

The context of all the mentions of antichrist in John's epistles demand that they were first century apostates.

See 1 John 4:3 where John says clearly that the spirit of "the antichrist" . . . "even NOW is ALREADY in the world."

There is not so much as a slight shred of clear certain evidence, inside John's epistles, that say there will be a future.
antichrist. All the evidence, in John's epistles, demonstrate that the antichrist(s) lived in the first century and were
Christian apostates.

My view is that so far the following stand unrefuted.​

(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century​

1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"​

In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as ​

first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they​

did not really belong to us." ​

(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the​

Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the​

Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.​

(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does​

not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is​

already in the world" (of the first century).​

(4) 2 John 7 says that the antichrist is many deceivers that have gone​

out in the world (of the first century.) Therefore this verse says that​

there are many antichrists, not just one antichrist.​

Again, see 1 John 4:3 where John says clearly that the spirit of "the antichrist" . . . "even NOW is ALREADY in the world."

____________


Also there is NOT a shred of evidence anywhere in the bible that connects the
antichrist mentioned in John's epistles with any other Biblical character that the
Premillennialists claim is the antichrist, for example "the man of sin", the "false
prophet", the "beast" of Revelation, etc

Instead of presenting clear arguments, mere claims and mere proclamations are
presented.

For example, my name is John Premillennial and I strongly desire for the antichrists
mentioned in John to be the "man of sin: mentioned by Paul, therefore I, John Premillennial,
issue a proclamation that says they are the same.

___________



My view is the following still stands unrefuted:​

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . . ​

which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in​

the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader​

search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.​

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,​

without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."​

The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210​

The reading is clear. There is "the antichrist" that is coming.

What is this spirit of antichrist? The spirit that opposes the anointed one. John 10:10 is one place that tells us who opposes Christ. The thief, also known as the Devil, Satan, the serpent...

"The antichrist" is coming.

 

[JAGG]

The reading is clear. There is "the antichrist" that is coming.

"The antichrist" is coming.

Thanks for your comments.

Proclamations are fascinating. Let me also issue some proclamations.

The reading is NOT clear. There is NOT any future character called "the antichrist" that is coming. ​

"The antichrist" is NOT coming.​

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . . ​

which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in​

the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader​

search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.​

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,​

without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."​

The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210​

See the Opening Post that stands unrefuted.

 

[oatmeal]

Thanks for your comments.

Proclamations are fascinating. Let me also issue some proclamations.

The reading is NOT clear. There is NOT any future character called "the antichrist" that is coming. ​

"The antichrist" is NOT coming.​

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . . ​

which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in​

the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader​

search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.​

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,​

without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."​

The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210​

See the Opening Post that stands unrefuted.

Whether or not the other references are directly correlated to "the antichrist" is an interesting question.

However, it seems that the following versions may be useful to you as far as determining as to whether or not an antichrist, or the antichrist is yet to come that is not included in the present day and past antichrists.

KJ21
Little children, it is the last time. And as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists, whereby we know that this is the last time.
ASV
Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
AMP
Children, it is the last hour [the end of this age]; and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming [the one who will oppose Christ and attempt to replace Him], even now many antichrists (false teachers) have appeared, which confirms our belief that it is the last hour.
AMPC
Boys (lads), it is the last time (hour, the end of this age). And as you have heard that the antichrist [he who will oppose Christ in the guise of Christ] is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, which confirms our belief that it is the final (the end) time.
BRG
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
CSB
Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. By this we know that it is the last hour.
CEB
Little children, it is the last hour. Just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.
CJB
Children, this is the Last Hour. You have heard that an Anti-Messiah is coming; and in fact, many anti-Messiahs have arisen now — which is how we know that this is the Last Hour.
CEV
Children, this is the last hour. You heard that the enemy of Christ would appear at this time, and many of Christ’s enemies have already appeared. So we know that the last hour is here.
DARBY
Little children, it is [the] last hour, and, according as ye have heard that antichrist comes, even now there have come many antichrists, whence we know that it is [the] last hour.
DLNT
Children, it is the last hour. And just as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen— from which we know that it is the last hour.
DRA
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.
ERV
My dear children, the end is near! You have heard that the enemy of Christ is coming. And now many enemies of Christ are already here. So we know that the end is near.
EHV
Dear children, it is the last hour. The Antichrist is coming, just as you have heard, and even now many antichrists have come. (This is how you know that it is the last hour.)
ESV
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
ESVUK
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
EXB
My dear children [2:1], ·these are the last days [^Lit is the last hour; ^Csuggesting urgency, though not claiming the end was near]. [^LJust as] You have heard that the ·enemy of Christ [^Lantichrist] is coming, and now many ·enemies of Christ [^Lantichrists; ^Cfalse teachers; 2:22; 2 John 7] are already here. This is how we know that ·these are the last days [^Lit is the last hour].
GNV
Little children, it is the last time, and as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now there are many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last time.
GW
Children, it’s the end of time. You’ve heard that an antichrist is coming. Certainly, many antichrists are already here. That’s how we know it’s the end of time.
GNT
My children, the end is near! You were told that the Enemy of Christ would come; and now many enemies of Christ have already appeared, and so we know that the end is near.
HCSB
Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard, “Antichrist is coming,” even now many antichrists have come. We know from this that it is the last hour.
ICB
My dear children, the end is near! You have heard that the Enemy of Christ is coming. And now many enemies of Christ are already here. So we know that the end is near.
ISV
Little children, it is the last hour. Just as you heard that an antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.
PHILLIPS
Even now, dear children, we are getting near the end of things. You have heard, I expect, the prophecy about the coming of the anti-Christ. Believe me, there are anti-christs about already, which confirms my belief that we are near the end. These men went out from our company, it is true, but they never really belonged to it. If they had really belonged to us they would have stayed. In fact, their going proves beyond doubt that men like that were not “our men” at all.
KJV
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
AKJV
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
LEB
Children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, by which we know that it is the last hour.
TLB
Dear children, this world’s last hour has come. You have heard about the Antichrist who is coming—the one who is against Christ—and already many such persons have appeared. This makes us all the more certain that the end of the world is near.
MSG
Children, time is just about up. You heard that Antichrist is coming. Well, they’re all over the place, antichrists everywhere you look. That’s how we know that we’re close to the end.
MEV
Little children, it is the last hour. As you have heard that the antichrist will come, even now there are many antichrists. By this we know that it is the last hour.
MOUNCE
My children, it is the last hour! And just as you heard that the Antichrist would come, even now many antichrists have appeared. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
NOG
Children, it’s the end of time. You’ve heard that an antichrist is coming. Certainly, many antichrists are already here. That’s how we know it’s the end of time.
NABRE
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.
NASB
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
NCV
My dear children, these are the last days. You have heard that the enemy of Christ is coming, and now many enemies of Christ are already here. This is how we know that these are the last days.
NET
Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour.
NIRV
Dear children, we are living in the last days. You have heard that the great enemy of Christ is coming. But even now many enemies of Christ have already come. That’s how we know that these are the last days.
NIV
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
NIVUK
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
NKJV
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
NLV
My children, we are near the end of the world. You have heard that the false-christ is coming. Many false-christs have already come. This is how we know the end of the world is near.
NLT
Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come.
NMB
Little children, it is the last time. And as you have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now there are many Antichrists come already. By this we know that it is the last time.
NRSV
Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.
NRSVA
Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.
NRSVACE
Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.
NRSVCE
Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.
NTE
Children, it is the last hour. You have heard that ‘Antimessiah’ is coming – and now many Antimessiahs have appeared! That’s how we know that it is the last hour.
OJB
Yeladim, it is the sha’ah ha’achronah (the last hour, time), and as you heard that Anti-Moshiach is coming, even now many Anti-Moshiachs [nevi’ei sheker, 4:1] have come, from which we have da’as that it is the sha’ah ha’achronah.
TPT
Dear children, the end of this age is near! You have heard that Antichrist is arising, and in fact, many enemies of Christ have already appeared, and this is how we know that we are living in the closing hour of this age.
RGT
Little children, it is the last hour. And just as you have heard that Antichrist shall come, so now there are many Antichrists (by which we know that it is the last hour).
RSV
Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour.
RSVCE
Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour.
TLV
Children, it is the last hour. Just as you heard that the anti-messiah is coming, even now many anti-messiahs have come—by this we know that it is the last hour.
VOICE
My children, this is the final hour. You have heard that the antiChrist, the greatest enemy to His kingdom, is coming, but in fact, many antiChrists are already here. This development tells us how late it really is.
WEB
Little children, these are the end times, and as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen. By this we know that it is the final hour.
WE
Children, we are very near the end of time. You have heard that someone will come who is against Christ. Many who are against Christ have already come. That is how we know that we are very near the end of time.
WYC
My little sons, the last hour is; and as ye have heard, that antichrist cometh, now many antichrists be made; wherefore we know [whereof we know], that it is the last hour.
YLT
Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many -- whence we know that it is the last hour;

that list is from Bible Gateway website

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of any let alone all of those versions, but it is interesting that they speak of an antichrist that is coming. Whether that is the same individual as the beast or some other entity, I have drawn no conclusions

 

[JAGG]

Whether or not the other references are directly correlated to "the antichrist" is an interesting question.

oatmeal, thank you for your comments and thank you for taking the time to put the various translations of
1 John 2:18 in the thread.

​

However, it seems that the following versions may be useful to you as far as determining as to whether or
not an antichrist, or the antichrist is yet to come that is not included in the present day and past antichrists.

I'm sorry . . .

They do not make any contribution whatsoever with regard to refuting the Proposition of this thread, which
Proposition is "There Are No Compelling Argument For A Future Antichrist.

The "yet to come" had a first century fulfillment. The clear statements in John's epistles make a first century
fulfillment clear.

Here are those statements from John's epistles:
`
(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century
1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"
In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as
first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they
did not really belong to us."
`
(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the
Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the
Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.
`
(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does
not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is
already in the world" (of the first century).
`

​

that list is from Bible Gateway website

A super good website. I use it regularly. God bless them all. Bible Hub, too.

​

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of any let alone all of those versions

I understand.

​

but it is interesting that they speak of an antichrist that is coming.

"that is coming"___oatmeal


It is NOT compelling evidence because you have to present a COMPELLING argument that COMPELLINGLY proves that
the future in which the antichrist appeared could NOT possibly have been say 24 months from the time that John wrote
1 John2:18 .. . .or 50 months . . .or 60 months.
`

You have to present a COMPELLING argument that COMPELLINGLY proves that the "that is coming" could NOT possibly
refer to say 24 months or 48 months AFTER John wrote 1 John 2:18
`

My view is there is not a single COMPELLING argument that proves that "he shall come" could not POSSIBLY refer to say
24 or 48 months AFTER John wrote 1 John 2:18
`

Remember there is zero COMPELLING arguments that connect John's mention of antichrist with any other Bible verse in
Daniel, Ezekiel, Paul's epistles, the Book Of Revelation, or any other Bible verse or passage anywhere in the Bible. Its
ALL 100% pure speculation.

`
_____________________


oatmeal,

By the way, my friend, I do not mean any of the above in an unfriendly tone. I realize that we Christians disagree on Christian​

Eschatology. This is why I wrote the title of my thread as I did, and why I wrote the contents of my Opening Post as I did.​

The key phrase is "compelling argument" and there is NOT a single COMPELLING ARGUMENT that defeats this Proposition;​

"There Is No Compelling Argument For A Future Antichrist. ​

Whether or not one can, or can NOT, make a compelling argument for a future "man of sin" or a future "beast" or a future
"false prophet" ​

or a future "whatever" is a DIFFERENT question and deserves a thread of it's own.​

. ​

​

Whether that is the same individual as the beast or some other entity, I have drawn no conclusions

oatmeal. I understand.

And thanks again for your comments and for your contributions to this thread.

One day in the far off future all we Christians will arrive at the UNITY of the faith and we will all believe the
same things regarding Christian doctrines. Meanwhile we will continue to debate and argue about a long
list of Biblical issues.

God bless.

 

[Aimiel]

Dr. Loraine Boettner is a he.

And he is right, not wrong.

No, he isn't because Jesus said that the 'man of sin' must first be revealed; he has not yet been revealed. When that takes place we will know for certain: this is THE Antichrist.

 

[JAGG]

No, he isn't because Jesus said that the 'man of sin' must first be
revealed; he has not yet been revealed. When that takes place we will know for certain: this is
THE Antichrist.

Thanks for your comment.

Consider these facts:

There is no evidence that the "man of sin" or the "man of lawlessness"​

mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3 is connected in any way with the antichrists​

mentioned in the 4 verses in John's epistles. ​

Also note the following from John's epistles that mention antichrist:​

(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century​

1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"​

In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as ​

first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they​

did not really belong to us." ​

(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the​

Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the​

Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.​

(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does​

not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is​

already in the world" (of the first century).​

(4) 2 John 7 says that the antichrist is many deceivers that have gone​

out in the world (of the first century.) Therefore this verse says that​

there are many antichrists, not just one antichrist.​

 

[oatmeal]

I am going to take a close look at
1 John 2: 18-19

`​

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. ___
1 John 2:18-19

`​

Note the particulars from
1 John 2:18-19
`

(1) "this is the last hour" That compellingly refers ONLY to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It could not refer to the year 950 A.D.

Or to the year 1200 A.D.

Or to the year 1880 A.D.

Or to the year 2018 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Could the people who lived say 200 years ago, have correctly said "this is the last hour" refers to our time period? No of course not.
`
(2) "even NOW many antichrists have come"

The "NOW" refers to the time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1100 A.D.

Or to the year 1680 A.D.

Or to the year 1760 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Could the people who lived say 300 years ago, have correctly said that "even NOW many antichrists have come"? No, of course not.
`

(3) "MANY antichrists have come."

"Many is plural. There were many antichrists that had ALREADY come in the

time of the first century.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 1000 A.D.

Or to the year 1480 A.D.

Or to the year 1260 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"Many antichrists have come" (they were living THEN at the time John wrote this verse.)
`

(4) "They went out from us. but they did not belong to us"

This compellingly is a reference to the first century, when John wrote 1 John.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

It CANNOT refer to the year 2020. That would be an incorrect interpretation.

Just as it could not refer to the year 450 A.D.

Or to the year 850 A.D.

Or to the year 1380 A.D.

Or to the year 1860 A.D.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"They went out from us" means they went out from the Apostles who wrote that. It cannot be interpreted to refer to a future time.

______________


Just that up there alone demonstrates that there is no future "antichrist" mentioned in John's epistles. See the Opening Post for additional arguments from John's 4 brief mentions of antichrist in his epistles.

A few questions.

(1) "this is the last hour" That compellingly refers ONLY to the time of the first century.

What is so compelling about that?

What evidence do you have to reach that conclusion?

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

Why not? the verse is clearly stating a future time, there is no reason given so far to think otherwise

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

Why? You could list all the years between then and now and that would not provide any scriptural evidence for the conclusion

(4) "They went out from us. but they did not belong to us"[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

This compellingly is a reference to the first century, when John wrote 1 John.

What is it about that which is so compelling?

Please state your case.

It CANNOT refer to any future time.

Why not? What evidence do you have for that?

Your list of years does not prove that.

It MUST refer ONLY to the time it was written, namely the first century.

"They went out from us" means they went out from the Apostles who wrote that. It cannot be interpreted to refer to a future time.

Based on what?

 

[Aimiel]

Thanks for your comment.

Consider these facts:

There is no evidence that the "man of sin" or the "man of lawlessness" mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3 is connected in any way with the antichrists mentioned in the 4 verses in John's epistles.

​

There's no evidence that it ISN'T connected either and I believe that they're one and the same. Seems obvious. I've read Scripture, studied many commentaries, books and attended several lectures (not to mention several hundred sermons) and meditated quite a bit on this, but never once denied glaring Truth that slaps me in the face such as there not being an Anti-Christ coming who will rule this earth with a rod of iron and enslave most all of mankind. Many people deny the evidence in Scripture which points out the fact that Jesus is God, in The Flesh. I don't buy into that, either. You might believe that the man who has yet to be revealed is merely a selfish, wicked ruler, but Scripture warns us in plenty places that he is the incarnation of Satan and will not only have a false prophet who can do lying wonders while in his presence but also bring to life an image (probably robot with AI) of the Beast. Those who don't know any better will not only fall for his lies but they'll worship him and go so far as to lose their soul for doing so, having received his mark. There's ZERO compelling evidence that this has yet taken place but it will. God knows the future, exhaustively and wants us to be warned. What I say to you, I say to everyone: "Watch." Right now God is shaking the earth and the only ones who aren't being shaken are those who have His Presence inside them and they are being shaken because they're with God in the shaking. This is not His Design (disease) but He does work ALL things together for good, to those who love Him and are called, according to His Purposes.​

 

[JAGG]

There is no evidence that the "man of sin" or the "man of lawlessness"​

mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3 is connected in any way with the antichrists​

mentioned in the 4 verses in John's epistles.​

`

Regarding A Future "man of sin" in 2 Thess. 2

Many reputable orthodox Bible believing born again Christian scholars​

identify the "man of sin" mentioned in 2 Thess. 2 as Paul referring to​

Nero Caesar who lived in the first century. ​

Christendom has not settled on who the "man of sin" was.​

There is NOT a Christian consensus that the "man of sin" refers to​

a future individual who will appear in the end times. ​

Regarding Paul's mention of the "man of sin":​

I am sitting here at my computer and I am going to take the time to type into this posting
block a passage from Dr. Kenneth Gentry's work titled He Shall Have Dominion.
`
What follows is not a Copy & Paste job, but will be a small drop of my blood, sweat, and tears
to get all this typed up just for the reader.
`
I hope readers will find it helpful.
`
Please give this a slow and careful read.
`
Start quote.

We come now to another difficult eschatological passage, one rivaling Daniel 9 in the intensity
of its interpretative controversy: 2 Thessalonians 2. This famous passage contains Paul's
reference to the "man of lawlessness" (Nestle's text) or "man of sin" (Majority text.)
`
Scholars note this passage's exceptional difficulty. Augustine writes regarding a certain portion
of the passage: "I confess that I am entirely ignorant of what he means to say."
`
New Testament Greek scholar Vincent omits interpreting the passage in his four volume lexical
commentary: "I attempt no interpretation of this passage as a whole, which I do not understand."
`
Renowned Greek linguist A. T. Robertson despairs of the task of interpreting this passage because
it is "in such vague form that we can hardly clear it up."
`
Leon Morris urges "care" in handling this "notoriously difficult passage."
`
F.F. Bruce notes that "there are few New Testament passages that can boast such a variety of
interpretations as this."
`
Even some Dispensationalists admit that it is "an extremely puzzling passage of Scripture that has
been a thorn in the flesh of many an expositor."
`
End quote.


Source:

He Shall Have Dominion
by Dr. Kenneth Gentry,
page386


_________________


So?


So one might "go slow" in claiming certainty with regard to interpreting 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
`

Gentry concludes "that the "man of lawlessness" was Nero Caesar, who was also the "beast" of
Revelation." --- and he presents his arguments to support his conclusion.
`

I personally do NOT take a position on who the "man of lawlessness" was (aka the "man of sin")
`

I don't KNOW that we CAN ever KNOW for certain.
`

Dr. Kenneth Gentry makes a very convincing argument that the "man of sin" was Nero Caesar
who persecuted the Christians of the first century.

 

[User Name]

The Bible mentions Antichrist in only the following 4 verses:
1 John 2:18
1John 2:22
1 John 4:3
2 John 7

There is no compelling argument for a future Antichrist because . . . .

There is no compelling argument that connects these 4 verses with
anything said in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation.


What say you?

One observation that I find fairly compelling is that Satan attempts to imitate God (Isaiah 14:14), and since the New Testament reveals God in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, likewise Revelation 16:13 speaks of a triunity of evil in the forms of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. The dragon is Satan (Revelation 20:2), the beast is the Antichrist, and the false prophet is a false spiritual leader. These passages speak to a yet future event in which these triune evil entities will be thrown in to the lake of fire and the Millennial reign of Christ on Earth will ensue.

 

[JAGG]

Postmillennialism is very much alive and healthy and strong and growing​

in the world today. ​

From the back blurbs of Dr. Kenneth Gentry's He Shall Have Dominion:​

"In this greatly expanded and wholly updated version of Dr. Gentry's classic​

study of Postmillennialism, you will sense anew the powerful message of​

Psalm 72 that Christ "shall have dominion from sea to sea" (Psa. 72:8).​

You will learn that God's word promises that "the whole earth will be filled​

with His glory" (Psa. 72:19) so that "all nations will call Him blessed"​

(Psa. 72:17) BEFORE Christ returns.​

Many evangelicals today are concerned about those being Left Behind on​

this Late Great Planet Earth as it collapses into absolute chaos. But the​

Postmillennialist optimistically believes that He Shall Have Dominion​

through the (Holy) Spirit-blessed labor of His blood-bought Church​

by its faithful obedience to the New Covenant.​

In this book you will find the whole Biblical rationale for the Postmillennial​

hope, from its incipient beginning in Genesis to its glorious conclusion in​

Revelation.​

Your faith will be re-invigorated as you begin to recognize that the gospel​

is the power of God unto salvation (Rom. 1:16) and that our Lord Jesus​

really meant it when He commanded us to "go and make disciples of all​

the nations" (Matthew 28:19)​

From the back cover of:​

He Shall Have Dominion​

Third Edition Revised and Expanded.​

by Dr. Kenneth Gentry​

Paperback 620 pages ​

9 inches X 6 inches X 2 inches thick​

Its very popular so its not cheap​

$36.00 Free S/H​

amazon.com​

https://www.amazon.com/Shall-Have-Do...s%2C154&sr=8-1

 

[JAGG]

One observation that I find fairly compelling is that Satan attempts to imitate God (Isaiah 14:14), and since the New Testament reveals God in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, likewise Revelation 16:13 speaks of a triunity of evil in the forms of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. The dragon is Satan (Revelation 20:2), the beast is the Antichrist, and the false prophet is a false spiritual leader. These passages speak to a yet future event in which these triune evil entities will be thrown in to the lake of fire and the Millennial reign of Christ on Earth will ensue.

Thanks for your comments.

In another vein, did you read my all-in-fun post here in this thread?
https://theologyonline.com/forum/po...hony-as-a-ford-corvette?p=2743758#post2743758

 

[User Name]

Thanks for your comments.

In another vein, did you read my all-in-fun post here in this thread?
https://theologyonline.com/forum/po...hony-as-a-ford-corvette?p=2743758#post2743758

You're welcome, and yes I saw that post! It is an exciting thing to realize we are not alone in the universe! Seeing is believing, and seeing UFOs for yourself is certainly believing!

[/sarcasm]