Trump's Election an Echo, Not Foreshadowing

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
A view from the center.

To borrow a bit and to my friends on the left, why shouldn't you worry? Because the Republican Party just fielded its most galvanizing candidate since Reagan. One singularly tailored to best bring the decade long doom and gloom, mistrust of government institutions and beltway politics to fruition. One expert at mining the even longer festering contempt for a declining status quo among the middle class. It did so against an opponent whose popularity within her party was more driven by necessity than interest. And it still took the philosophical gerrymandering of the EC to produce a win at odds with the popular vote, for the fifth time in electoral history. Let that much sink in mid-angst and calm down, stop choking the streets with anguish and providing unintentional fodder for those dedicated to painting you with the conduct of the thuggish margins who will inevitably use any unrest as a vehicle for mayhem.

The world isn't coming to an end, but the party that divested you might well have seen in this election a glorious death-throe. Couple the reality of that historically unlikely victory with the reality that the rising tide of solidly left leaning millennials and minorities can begin to carry more of the electoral process in coming cycles. All the Democratic Party really has to do is regroup and get ready for the next time up. Stop sabre-rattling and venting and begin the work of sounding a hopeful, inclusive, compassionate vision of a united people and a government engaged primarily with the welfare of its citizenry. Take back the "looking out for the little guy" mantle you so easily allowed a billionaire to usurp in your clamor of disorganized special interest. Get your base to the polls and the future is almost assuredly yours.This hiccup of an election is still largely the product of an aging, fading minority within the electorate, whose monolithic, but energized approach still needed a confluence of historically unlikely help to triumph in the moment.

If you're a conservative, you have two alternatives. You can simply savor the day and momentarily roll back any number of left driven institutional notions, until the inevitable wave of youth and minority growth within the population washes over you and undoes your reversals in the midst of your own inevitable undoing, or you can strike a new note, actually grow your base, incorporate a conservatively progressive approach (and no, those words aren't or shouldn't be oxymoronic) and compete by finding a voice that incorporates their self-interest and advancement in a demonstrable fashion. Do that and the political landscape may continue to be an interesting battleground of ideas, instead of the present New Orleans style funeral march for your ideology and party.
 

Crucible

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There is plenty of reason to distrust the current government, being that Obama has never had anything to say about the Left doing all they've done over the years- even to the point of them rioting against someone who won fair and square there's nothing but silence from your dear Barry O with his supposed passion for Americanism.
"Change you can believe in and it's okay to be sociopathic gestapos to your fellow countrymen "

They cared about nothing more than sabotaging anyone who opposed them and dissolving America into a borderless world order, which went a long time without much notice until these people started calling everyone who opposed them bigots, racists, sexists, homophobes, xenophobes, Hitler, anon anon.

And then it became clear- this government, these funded colleges, the students therein, their influenced laity, and all yall's politicians were trying to straight up sabotage Americanism from the inside out.

Anything a person has to say contrary to Trump is meaningless to me for real. The upcoming President can work to bring commonality back to the parties, but I personally think the Left should get the hell out of this country :wave2:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Not really responsive and I'm out of patience with bumpkins who confuse moderates with liberals, but at least you made the following unintentional funny:
..."Change you can believe in and it's okay to be sociopathic gestapos to your fellow countrymen"... I personally think the Left should get the hell out of this country :wave2:
The left as an intolerant, Gestapo like horde dovetailed nicely into your jackboot solution.

The smiley was well done though. :plain: Neatly typed, evidently. So...
 
What I don't understand are all the drama queens on either side of the issues, these dramatic articles the sky is falling, these theories the globe was just split in half and the pieces hurled into the dark void. If Hillary had won, I'd have gone, "Yuk!", not such a good sign for the United States, but my days would go on, just as before, Lord willing. Neither party ever rang me, to cast a deciding vote on anything, if I wet my pants over things I don't control, I'd just get wet. Then have to clean up, to boot. The Executive is only one branch of government, and some real borderline psychos and ne'er do wells have been in the White House since the nation's founding.

Maybe I'm not just an emotionally charged person, but happy not to be so, if only on nervous and blood pressure grounds, with the ability to be content, and the kingdom we seek, as Christians, is not of this world. No President makes or breaks my spirit, nor forms my beliefs, so I just don't understand why many people need Depends over an election.

Life will go on, until the Lord says not, and I genuinely feel sorry for anybody pulling their hair out over politics. It's drama queen stuff, as if there's even a carnal solution that can stick in God's universe. Also, emotionally unstable people, to put it simply, are immature. Period. It seems like the nation is having a food fight, and that's just embarrassing, like, wake me up when the food is finding your mouths, again. I'm already tuning a lot out, it's just so ridiculous, like a national bloopers reality show.
 

PureX

Well-known member
The democrats lost because they ignored the will of their younger voters, and the independent voters, who wanted them to run Bernie Sanders. And without them, they now must realize, they can't win elections, anymore.

So in future, they are going to have to stop acting like republicans, and wealthy conservatives, and start behaving like progressive democrats, again. Because that's the way their voting block is headed. And if they ever want to win future elections, they'd better figure out how to go that way, too.

The republican's problem is more difficult. They have pretty much always been the party of and for the rich. But they can't win elections based on the votes of rich people because there aren't enough of them. So they had to future our how to con a lot of non-wealthy people into vote for their candidates. And they've been doing that by pandering to religion, to racism, to sexism, to fear and personal greed, and directing all that negative bias against their opponents. If they couldn't get anyone but the rich to vote for them, they could get people to vote against the other guy, an for them by default. They've won elections this way, but they've also created a party so riddled with lies, slander, and negative extremism that the republican elites have basically lost control of it. And Donald Trump is the result.

As we speak, they are desperately trying to see if they can gain control of him. And if they can, they will be very happy to exploit him to gain every advantage that they can. If they can't control him, however, then they are going to have to rebuild their party while they try and minimize the damage Trump will continue to do to their 'brand'.

Both parties desperately need to change their ways and start paying attention to the needs and the will of the people again, instead of catering to a very small wealthy elite and then pretending that they care about the rest of us. But will they actually do this?

Sadly, I doubt it. Not until they are absolutely forced to do so by the vastly changing voter demographics. The baby-boomers are dying off and a lot of the ignorance, fear, bigotry, and narcissism that has characterized them is dying off with them. And so far, the younger generation is massively practical and progressive in comparison. They don't hate gays or blacks or the poor or Muslims. They don't want to rule the middle east or Russia or China. An they aren't going to vote for politicians that keep trying to play on these weakness for votes.

Sanders was their candidate, and the democrats payed the price for ignoring them. Let's see if they got the message.
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
A view from the center...
You bring up many true facts and real trends. I draw different conclusions from them than you, though.

While you're basically calling for Republicans to move left... guess what? They already have. They just finished selecting a pro-choice, LGBT-tolerant candidate whose platform included the re-establishment of Roosevelt-era jobs programs. The Republicans today ARE yesterday's Democratic party.

The issues have changed. In the past, the issues were economic conservatism and the legislation of morality laws. Those issues are dead. The Democrats won on both accounts.

The new issue is nationalism vs. globalism, and how it affects our economy. This election was a referendum on nationalism - 'make America great again' - and the people clearly favor a policy of pursuing our own national interests.

Both parties are about to be re-made along those lines. The 'Cans just had a Trump card to drag them kicking and screaming to that realization a little sooner than that 'Crats.
 

Crucible

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Not really responsive and I'm out of patience with bumpkins who confuse moderates with liberals

A moderate is just a liberal with a knack for deception, if not simply to themselves. This thread is 10% against the Left, 90% against the Right, as that is always the flow of a 'moderate'.

The left as an intolerant, Gestapo like horde dovetailed nicely into your jackboot solution.

The founding patriots would have shot them for treason.
 

The Berean

Well-known member
The democrats lost because they ignored the will of their younger voters, and the independent voters, who wanted them to run Bernie Sanders. And without them, they now must realize, they can't win elections, anymore.

So in future, they are going to have to stop acting like republicans, and wealthy conservatives, and start behaving like progressive democrats, again. Because that's the way their voting block is headed. And if they ever want to win future elections, they'd better figure out how to go that way, too.

The republican's problem is more difficult. They have pretty much always been the party of and for the rich. But they can't win elections based on the votes of rich people because there aren't enough of them. So they had to future our how to con a lot of non-wealthy people into vote for their candidates. And they've been doing that by pandering to religion, to racism, to sexism, to fear and personal greed, and directing all that negative bias against their opponents. If they couldn't get anyone but the rich to vote for them, they could get people to vote against the other guy, an for them by default. They've won elections this way, but they've also created a party so riddled with lies, slander, and negative extremism that the republican elites have basically lost control of it. And Donald Trump is the result.

As we speak, they are desperately trying to see if they can gain control of him. And if they can, they will be very happy to exploit him to gain every advantage that they can. If they can't control him, however, then they are going to have to rebuild their party while they try and minimize the damage Trump will continue to do to their 'brand'.

Both parties desperately need to change their ways and start paying attention to the needs and the will of the people again, instead of catering to a very small wealthy elite and then pretending that they care about the rest of us. But will they actually do this?

Sadly, I doubt it. Not until they are absolutely forced to do so by the vastly changing voter demographics. The baby-boomers are dying off and a lot of the ignorance, fear, bigotry, and narcissism that has characterized them is dying off with them. And so far, the younger generation is massively practical and progressive in comparison. They don't hate gays or blacks or the poor or Muslims. They don't want to rule the middle east or Russia or China. An they aren't going to vote for politicians that keep trying to play on these weakness for votes.

Sanders was their candidate, and the democrats payed the price for ignoring them. Let's see if they got the message.

Not really. Remember the Baby Boomers were the progressive liberal hippies (free love, drugs, anti-establishment) of the 1960's who fought for change through protests, riots, sit-ins, love-ins, Woodstock, and draft dodging. Yet, today the Baby Boomers as a whole are very conservative.

According to research today's Millenials are just as "racist" as their parents.

Millennials are just about as racist as their parents

When the Millenials are middle aged and are in power politically and economically (about 15-20 years from now) they'll act just like the Baby Boomers. As the Millenials get older they will become more conservative as a generation. This shift is starting to happen already.

Millennials more conservative than you may think


Another example is when Millenials get married and have children they prefer traditional gender roles which makes sense since the traditonal patriarchical led marriage is the best way to raise a family.

Millennial Men Aren’t the Dads They Thought They’d Be
 

quip

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The democrats lost because they ignored the will of their younger voters, and the independent voters, who wanted them to run Bernie Sanders. And without them, they now must realize, they can't win elections, anymore.

So in future, they are going to have to stop acting like republicans, and wealthy conservatives, and start behaving like progressive democrats, again. Because that's the way their voting block is headed. And if they ever want to win future elections, they'd better figure out how to go that way, too.

The republican's problem is more difficult. They have pretty much always been the party of and for the rich. But they can't win elections based on the votes of rich people because there aren't enough of them. So they had to future our how to con a lot of non-wealthy people into vote for their candidates. And they've been doing that by pandering to religion, to racism, to sexism, to fear and personal greed, and directing all that negative bias against their opponents. If they couldn't get anyone but the rich to vote for them, they could get people to vote against the other guy, an for them by default. They've won elections this way, but they've also created a party so riddled with lies, slander, and negative extremism that the republican elites have basically lost control of it. And Donald Trump is the result.

As we speak, they are desperately trying to see if they can gain control of him. And if they can, they will be very happy to exploit him to gain every advantage that they can. If they can't control him, however, then they are going to have to rebuild their party while they try and minimize the damage Trump will continue to do to their 'brand'.

Both parties desperately need to change their ways and start paying attention to the needs and the will of the people again, instead of catering to a very small wealthy elite and then pretending that they care about the rest of us. But will they actually do this?

Sadly, I doubt it. Not until they are absolutely forced to do so by the vastly changing voter demographics. The baby-boomers are dying off and a lot of the ignorance, fear, bigotry, and narcissism that has characterized them is dying off with them. And so far, the younger generation is massively practical and progressive in comparison. They don't hate gays or blacks or the poor or Muslims. They don't want to rule the middle east or Russia or China. An they aren't going to vote for politicians that keep trying to play on these weakness for votes.

Sanders was their candidate, and the democrats payed the price for ignoring them. Let's see if they got the message.

So, metaphorically speaking, Trump swooped upon a discombobulated party system like a distressed property vulture. Let's just hope Trump's profit-margins aren't a measure of his sub-contractor exploitation methods ...this time around.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
So after I wrote, "Not really responsive and I'm out of patience with bumpkins who confuse moderates with liberals"
A moderate is just a liberal with a knack for deception
Thanks, but I don't think anyone missed my point the first time.

if not simply to themselves.
Essentially, anyone who doesn't...let's call it "think" like Cruc is either a liberal or a liberal. :plain:

This thread is 10% against the Left, 90% against the Right, as that is always the flow of a 'moderate'.
No, but it's like someone who thinks the way you do to see that. I think it's going to be difficult for some on the far right to drop the picked upon paranoia shtick and handle a little success.

What I actually noted was objectively verifiable in just about every part, which is why I suspect you aren't talking particulars or using quotes.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
You bring up many true facts and real trends. I draw different conclusions from them than you, though.

While you're basically calling for Republicans to move left... guess what? They already have.
Not exactly, I'm suggesting they apply conservative principles in a robust and inclusive manner. They can't survive for long as the party of aging white America...they need to really talk about revitalizing and incentivizing industry in communities in need of help, demonstrate the hammer and nails of market superiority as a provider of healthcare, if with intelligent (for once) regulation aimed at promoting not restraining competition, about fiscal restraint and accountability, investment in infrastructure and retooling the workforce, that sort of thing. If they don't the party that just won the White House will be marginalized within our lifetime.

They just finished selecting a pro-choice, LGBT-tolerant candidate whose platform included the re-establishment of Roosevelt-era jobs programs. The Republicans today ARE yesterday's Democratic party.
I'd agree that socially speaking the nation has moved away from the old guard right. It always has on one issue or another, from slavery, to suffrage, to the Civil Rights Movement.

The new issue is nationalism vs. globalism, and how it affects our economy. This election was a referendum on nationalism - 'make America great again' - and the people clearly favor a policy of pursuing our own national interests.
Not sure about that. So you're saying by a stroke of geographically divided luck the nationalists beat out the globalists, who garnered more, but less effectively placed votes?
 
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PureX

Well-known member
Not really. Remember the Baby Boomers were the progressive liberal hippies (free love, drugs, anti-establishment) of the 1960's who fought for change through protests, riots, sit-ins, love-ins, Woodstock, and draft dodging. Yet, today the Baby Boomers as a whole are very conservative.

According to research today's Millenials are just as "racist" as their parents.

Millennials are just about as racist as their parents

When the Millenials are middle aged and are in power politically and economically (about 15-20 years from now) they'll act just like the Baby Boomers. As the Millenials get older they will become more conservative as a generation. This shift is starting to happen already.

Millennials more conservative than you may think


Another example is when Millenials get married and have children they prefer traditional gender roles which makes sense since the traditonal patriarchical led marriage is the best way to raise a family.

Millennial Men Aren’t the Dads They Thought They’d Be
Maybe. But right now they are overwhelmingly progressive. And they have the benefit of the internet. Which the baby boomers did not have. They are also not particularly so idealistic in their youth, as the baby boomers were. Nor so myopic. I don't think they will change to the degree that the boomers did, as they get older.

Also, their supposed conservatism is far more pragmatic than boomer conservatism. as it is not based so much on fantasy and magical thinking.

Anyway, exit polls taken among 18 - 25 year olds found them to be overwhelming progressive. And it was the democrats ignoring these young people, and taking them for granted that cost Hillary the election. Because many of them voted third party or did not vote for president. They don't buy into the "our bad candidate is not as bad as their bad candidate" threat.
 

PureX

Well-known member
So, metaphorically speaking, Trump swooped upon a discombobulated party system like a distressed property vulture. Let's just hope Trump's profit-margins aren't a measure of his sub-contractor exploitation methods ...this time around.
Sadly, past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. I think we're all screwed.
 

Tambora

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The new issue is nationalism vs. globalism, and how it affects our economy. This election was a referendum on nationalism - 'make America great again' - and the people clearly favor a policy of pursuing our own national interests.
I can see that too.
 

The Berean

Well-known member
Maybe. But right now they are overwhelmingly progressive.
As all generations are at that age. I'm Generation X and in my 20's (the 1990's) I was an ultra liberal, left wing, progressive nut.

And they have the benefit of the internet. Which the baby boomers did not have. They are also not particularly so idealistic in their youth, as the baby boomers were. Nor so myopic. I don't think they will change to the degree that the boomers did, as they get older.
But the Baby Boomers were much more action oriented. They marched and protested in huge numbers. They were willing to get beat down by police and shot in the face for their cause. In contrast, the Millenials today are soft by comparison. They are too busy staring at their smart phones at Starbucks, being Internet tough guys, crying on the Internet, being triggered by micro-agressions, needing therapy dogs because Trump won, etc. When they try to push against the corrupt system the moment the system pushes back they run home to mommy's basement and go online and tell all their liberal friends on Facebook that the world is mean to them.

Also, their supposed conservatism is far more pragmatic than boomer conservatism. as it is not based so much on fantasy and magical thinking.
I'm not sure why this matters. :idunno:

Anyway, exit polls taken among 18 - 25 year olds found them to be overwhelming progressive.
All the post WW II generations were also "progressive" at 18-25.

And it was the democrats ignoring these young people, and taking them for granted that cost Hillary the election. Because many of them voted third party or did not vote for president. They don't buy into the "our bad candidate is not as bad as their bad candidate" threat.
One thing I do admire abuut the Millenials is that as a group they have a highly honed internal BS-Crap meter. They know when someone is trying to peddle BS to them.
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
Not sure about that. So you're saying by a stroke of geographically divided luck the nationalists beat out the globalists, who garnered more, but less effectively placed votes?
I take your point.

The lines aren't very clear right now. Half the populace selected a candidate based on product loyalty.

The divide between nationalists and globalists is going to re-define the parties. It may take a few election cycles before everyone gets the memo.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
I take your point.

The lines aren't very clear right now. Half the populace selected a candidate based on product loyalty.

The divide between nationalists and globalists is going to re-define the parties. It may take a few election cycles before everyone gets the memo.
I think it's certainly worth considering. . . I'd have to say I have a nationalist streak in me. I don't see the sense in playing by rules that aren't being followed uniformly and which don't appear to work to our real, long term and independent interests.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
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A view from the center.

To borrow a bit and to my friends on the left, why shouldn't you worry? Because the Republican Party just fielded its most galvanizing candidate since Reagan. One singularly tailored to best bring the decade long doom and gloom, mistrust of government institutions and beltway politics to fruition. One expert at mining the even longer festering contempt for a declining status quo among the middle class. It did so against an opponent whose popularity within her party was more driven by necessity than interest. And it still took the philosophical gerrymandering of the EC to produce a win at odds with the popular vote, for the fifth time in electoral history. Let that much sink in mid-angst and calm down, stop choking the streets with anguish and providing unintentional fodder for those dedicated to painting you with the conduct of the thuggish margins who will inevitably use any unrest as a vehicle for mayhem.

The world isn't coming to an end, but the party that divested you might well have seen in this election a glorious death-throe. Couple the reality of that historically unlikely victory with the reality that the rising tide of solidly left leaning millennials and minorities can begin to carry more of the electoral process in coming cycles. All the Democratic Party really has to do is regroup and get ready for the next time up. Stop sabre-rattling and venting and begin the work of sounding a hopeful, inclusive, compassionate vision of a united people and a government engaged primarily with the welfare of its citizenry. Take back the "looking out for the little guy" mantle you so easily allowed a billionaire to usurp in your clamor of disorganized special interest. Get your base to the polls and the future is almost assuredly yours.This hiccup of an election is still largely the product of an aging, fading minority within the electorate, whose monolithic, but energized approach still needed a confluence of historically unlikely help to triumph in the moment.

If you're a conservative, you have two alternatives. You can simply savor the day and momentarily roll back any number of left driven institutional notions, until the inevitable wave of youth and minority growth within the population washes over you and undoes your reversals in the midst of your own inevitable undoing, or you can strike a new note, actually grow your base, incorporate a conservatively progressive approach (and no, those words aren't or shouldn't be oxymoronic) and compete by finding a voice that incorporates their self-interest and advancement in a demonstrable fashion. Do that and the political landscape may continue to be an interesting battleground of ideas, instead of the present New Orleans style funeral march for your ideology and party.
The funeral march is decidedly for the democratic party
 
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