Theology Club: Standard A9D View of Paul's Ministry

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul is the first!

Yes, and he made it plain that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Since those Jews were saved by grace through faith "works" played no part in their salvation. And the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the Law that the only requirement for salvation was "faith":

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Why do you and those in the Neo-MAD community refuse to believe Him?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Consider also that while it is fine to let a passage mean what it says, that is actually not enough.

That one must then proceed to attempt to identify what it means.

Through comparison of verse with verse first.

Since you think that you know the correct way to interpret the Scriptures let us see if your method works. Let us look at these words spoken to the Jews who lived under the law by the Lord Jesus:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

According to my method of interpreting the Scriptures the Lord told those Jews that if they "believed" then they would be saved. He said nothing about doing "works" in order to be saved so according to my method of interpreting the Scriptures they were saved by faith and faith alone.

Last time I gave you these facts you just ran and hid from them. Why is that since you think that you have the key to finding the correct interpretation of the meaning of the Scriptures?

The one ingredient you left out is "believing" what is written. You keep forgetting to do that!

 

[Danoh]

Geez, what would Jerry do with himself without his three or four pet peeves to pester everyone with - in post, after post, after post, no matter the thread, subject, or post?

He'd find another one...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Geez, what would Jerry do with himself without his three or four pet peeves to pester everyone with - in post, after post, after post, no matter the thread, subject, or post?

What you call my pet peeves are passages from the Scriptures which contradict your silly ideas. And that is why once again you run and hide from these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Do you continue to stick your head in the sand and ignore what the Lord Jesus said there in the hope that His words there will go away?

It will never happen!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

In the OT, atonement was only for those gathered?

Yes, Danoh the Great.

Think about the Israelite that blew off the day of Atonement, and gave no thought to the Law of God, would God temporarily remit his sin on the day of Atonement?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What you call my pet peeves are passages from the Scriptures which contradict your silly ideas. And that is why once again you run and hide from these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Do you continue to stick your head in the sand and ignore what the Lord Jesus said there in the hope that His words there will go away?

It will never happen!

My pet peeve is quoting one verse from John 5, and ignoring the rest of it...as well as the rest of the things the LORD had to say.

Why would you do that?

 

[Tambora]

run and hide

ran and hid

ran and hid

run and hide

Just in this thread.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Just in this thread.

He talks much about running and hiding, but he will not answer a single question that is not in his script, or that he can't copy and paste an answer from his website.

In essence, he runs and hides.

Hypocritical.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, Danoh the Great.

Think about the Israelite that blew off the day of Atonement, and gave no thought to the Law of God, would God temporarily remit his sin on the day of Atonement?

Consider Daniel's prayer in Daniel 9 per the Law of Moses.

Consider why there will still be atonement through animal sacrifices in the Millennium.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

My pet peeve is quoting one verse from John 5, and ignoring the rest of it...as well as the rest of the things the LORD had to say.

Why would you do that?

Because I believe that what the Lord Jesus said here means exactly what He said:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

That is an "unconditional" statement and His meaning could not be more clear.The Jews who lived under the law were saved when they "believed." What He said is either true or it is false. I think that it is true.

Bur you add "conditions" to what He said in His "unconditional" statement in an effort to pervert what He said. You say that we must look at what he said later in the same discourse because that proves that what He said at John 5:24 cannot possibly be true:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (Jn.5:28-29).​

You use His own words in an effort to pervert what He said at John 5:24. The Lord Jesus said that those who have "done good" will go to the resurrection of life. He doesn't say that those who have " done good works" will go the resuurection of life as you imagine.

You understanding of what the Lord Jesus said in this discourse is so limited that you fail to understand that He told us in this verse exactly what one must do in order to do good:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Do you deny that "believing" is doing good?

Do you think that having eternal life has nothing to do with the resurrection of life? You must not because you are unable to understand that "believing" results in eternal life and the resurrection of life is for those who have received eternal life.

Instead of being capable of understanding these simple things you turn all your efforts in trying to prove that what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 is in error.

 

[Danoh]

Because I believe that what the Lord Jesus said here means exactly what He said:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

That is an "unconditional" statement and His meaning could not be more clear.The Jews who lived under the law were saved when they "believed." What He said is either true or it is false. I think that it is true.

Bur you add "conditions" to what He said in His "unconditional" statement in an effort to pervert what He said. You say that we must look at what he said later in the same discourse because that proves that what He said at John 5:24 cannot possibly be true:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (Jn.5:28-29).​

You use His own words in an effort to pervert what He said at John 5:24. The Lord Jesus said that those who have "done good" will go to the resurrection of life. He doesn't say that those who have " done good works" will go the resuurection of life as you imagine.

You understanding of what the Lord Jesus said in this discourse is so limited that you fail to understand that He told us in this verse exactly what one must do in order to do good:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Do you deny that "believing" is doing good?

Do you think that having eternal life has nothing to do with the resurrection of life? You must not because you are unable to understand that "believing" results in eternal life and the resurrection of life is for those who have received eternal life.

Instead of being capable of understanding these simple things you turn all your efforts in trying to prove that what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 is in error.

LOL, for Jerry's much pestering, ur, posting, apparently he really does believe that believing is doing.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

LOL, for Jerry's much pestering, ur, posting, apparently he really does believe that believing is doing.

He will not budge from his scripted proof texts.
An open mind, he does not have.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Jerry,

Is there any doctrine that you do not have figured out?
Is there room in your mind for more learning?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

LOL, for Jerry's much pestering, ur, posting, apparently he really does believe that believing is doing.

How can anyone be so dense to imagine that "believing" is not doing something? Paul certainly knew that believing is doing something:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16"29-30).​

Where did you ever get the idea that you know more than Paul does about salvation?

Did STP tell you that?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

My pet peeve is quoting one verse from John 5, and ignoring the rest of it...as well as the rest of the things the LORD had to say.

Why would you do that?

Because I believe that what the Lord Jesus said here means exactly what He said:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

That is an "unconditional" statement and His meaning could not be more clear.The Jews who lived under the law were saved when they "believed." What He said is either true or it is false. I think that it is true.

Bur you add "conditions" to what He said in His "unconditional" statement in an effort to pervert what He said. You say that we must look at what he said later in the same discourse because that proves that what He said at John 5:24 cannot possibly be true:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (Jn.5:28-29).​

You use His own words in an effort to pervert what He said at John 5:24. The Lord Jesus said that those who have "done good" will go to the resurrection of life. He doesn't say that those who have " done good works" will go the resuurection of life as you imagine.

You understanding of what the Lord Jesus said in this discourse is so limited that you fail to understand that He told us in this verse exactly what one must do in order to do good:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Do you deny that "believing" is doing good?

Do you think that having eternal life has nothing to do with the resurrection of life? You must not because you are unable to understand that "believing" results in eternal life and the resurrection of life is for those who have received eternal life.

Instead of being capable of understanding these simple things you turn all your efforts in trying to prove that what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24 is in error.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Because I believe that what the Lord Jesus said here means exactly what He said:

I believe the whole chapter.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

How can anyone be so dense to imagine that "believing" is not doing something? Paul certainly knew that believing is doing something:

Another one of Jerry's weighty responses designed to make anyone who disagrees with him to feel like a failure as a Christian.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Did STP tell you that?

I probably disagree with Danoh more than I disagree with you.
Yet we have fellowship in the same gospel.

Can you imagine that?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Jerry,

Is there any doctrine that you do not have figured out?
Is there room in your mind for more learning?

I will take no response from Jerry as a "yes" and a "no".

 

[Danoh]

How can anyone be so dense to imagine that "believing" is not doing something? Paul certainly knew that believing is doing something:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16"29-30).​

Where did you ever get the idea that you know more than Paul does about salvation?

Did STP tell you that?

:rotfl:

I have to admit that how irate Jerry appears to get is a great source of amusement to me :rotfl:

It's just hilarious that he is so serious in his need to get others to agree with him or his day is ruined or something.

Here ya go - ten hours of Jerry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P8XiU07j2A