ECT What "Law" is this that Paul refers to?

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Romans 7:4-5ff (KJV)

VS 9 Paul speaks of a time when he wasn't affected/influenced by the law. When was that time do you think and again, what law do you think is he referring to?
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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What springs out to me is "the motions of sins, which were by the law"

The law [if you try to live by them] magnifies sin, gives strength to sin.

The law is the handwriting which is against us and can only mean the 10 commandments...these God took out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

That is why obedience as the way of salvation is a lying gospel...if evaluated properly it is extremely BAD news.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

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Cross Reference said:
VS 9 Paul speaks of a time when he wasn't affected/influenced by the law. When was that time do you think and again, what law do you think is he referring to?
Click to expand...

The law in question is the law of Moses and he wasn't affected by that law until he sinned in the following way:

"Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died" (Ro.7:7-9).​
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

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CR asks, What "Law" is this that Paul refers to ?
-------------------
I HAVE BEEN ASKING THIS QUESTION OF ALL OF THE POSTERS FOR YEARS

BECAUSE THEY KEEP GETTING IT WRONG.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Totton Linnet said:
What springs out to me is "the motions of sins, which were by the law"

The law [if you try to live by them] magnifies sin, gives strength to sin.

The law is the handwriting which is against us and can only mean the 10 commandments...these God took out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

That is why obedience as the way of salvation is a lying gospel...if evaluated properly it is extremely BAD news.
Click to expand...

Try this out:

"In my innocence . . . sin, taking occasion by the commandment by the law of the flesh, wrought in me all manner of wanton lust. For without the commandment of the law of God, sin was dead to me. Therefore, was I alive without the law of God, when very young: leaving me with a lack of guilt for sin but, when the understanding of His commandment came, sin revived, and I died." Romans 7:9 (KJV)
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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Try the Mosaic law of the Old Testament. If that doesn't do anything for your exegesis, dig out an old Rules of the Road book, for the state you live in. Any other obvious questions people are straining over?
 
Anto9us

Anto9us

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Paul is hypothetically speaking as if he is another person -- the real Saul of Tarsus was "brought up at the feet of Gamaliel" and was not PERSONALLY "alive without the Law once".

The Apostle Paul himself -- builder of churches -- chief apostle to the Gentiles; was not PERSONALLY in a state of "the good that I would, I cannot do"

This is not AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL in Romans 7 - Paul is speaking in a figure - speaking as if he was an unregenerate man wondering if he could be helped by the Law.

Is the mature Apostle Paul -- chief apostle to the Gentiles - writer of several New Testament books -- is he PERSONALLY in the pathetic state of "serving sin in his mortal body"?

It is one thing for Paul to say elsewhere that "I count not myself to have apprehended" -- it is quite another for a leading figure of the early church to declare himself PERSONALLY

"serving sin"

"trying to do good but I just can't"

"O wretched man that I am"

etc, etc.

It's NOT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL, people!

It's a figure of speech - a literary device of taking on a persona of an unsaved man who can never be saved by THE LAW

Christianity is a failed system if even so stalwart an example of it as The Apostle Paul -- if the best he can personally be is "wretched' "serving sin" "trying to do good but I just can't"

Gosh -- what can the rest of us do if Apostle Paul is actually in such a state?

This whole "O wretched man that I am" theology needs to be flushed down the toilet

the interpretations most popular of Romans 7-9 simply don't jive with

"God has not given a spirit of fear, but power and love and a sound mind"

and other things Paul wrote

but those who WREST Romans 7 into an "autobiography of Paul himself" do so to their own and other people's lack of understanding

this Paul, of whom Peter said he "has written some things hard to be understood"
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

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Anto9us said:
but those who WREST Romans 7 into an "autobiography of Paul himself" do so to their own and other people's lack of understanding

this Paul, of whom Peter said he "has written some things hard to be understood"
Click to expand...

what is really hard to understand
is
how they can rest
and
work so hard convincing us that they do
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Cross Reference said:
Try this out:

"In my innocence . . . sin, taking occasion by the commandment by the law of the flesh, wrought in me all manner of wanton lust. For without the commandment of the law of God, sin was dead to me. Therefore, was I alive without the law of God, when very young: leaving me with a lack of guilt for sin but, when the understanding of His commandment came, sin revived, and I died." Romans 7:9 (KJV)
Click to expand...

The law that said do not do this and do not do that, it gave ideas that one might not of had.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Anto9us said:
Paul is hypothetically speaking as if he is another person -- the real Saul of Tarsus was "brought up at the feet of Gamaliel" and was not PERSONALLY "alive without the Law once".

The Apostle Paul himself -- builder of churches -- chief apostle to the Gentiles; was not PERSONALLY in a state of "the good that I would, I cannot do"

This is not AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL in Romans 7 - Paul is speaking in a figure - speaking as if he was an unregenerate man wondering if he could be helped by the Law.

Is the mature Apostle Paul -- chief apostle to the Gentiles - writer of several New Testament books -- is he PERSONALLY in the pathetic state of "serving sin in his mortal body"?

It is one thing for Paul to say elsewhere that "I count not myself to have apprehended" -- it is quite another for a leading figure of the early church to declare himself PERSONALLY

"serving sin"

"trying to do good but I just can't"

"O wretched man that I am"

etc, etc.

It's NOT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL, people!

It's a figure of speech - a literary device of taking on a persona of an unsaved man who can never be saved by THE LAW

Christianity is a failed system if even so stalwart an example of it as The Apostle Paul -- if the best he can personally be is "wretched' "serving sin" "trying to do good but I just can't"

Gosh -- what can the rest of us do if Apostle Paul is actually in such a state?

This whole "O wretched man that I am" theology needs to be flushed down the toilet

the interpretations most popular of Romans 7-9 simply don't jive with

"God has not given a spirit of fear, but power and love and a sound mind"

and other things Paul wrote

but those who WREST Romans 7 into an "autobiography of Paul himself" do so to their own and other people's lack of understanding

this Paul, of whom Peter said he "has written some things hard to be understood"
Click to expand...

Correct.

Paul is speaking in a very exaggerated way what it is like for someone to try to obey the old law without FAITH.

Paul is not speaking about himself after Jesus saved him.
 
Anto9us

Anto9us

New member
Thank you, GT.



But I am looking for words that justify the phrase:

"when very young"




Therefore, was I alive without the law of God,


when very young:


leaving me with a lack of guilt for sin but, when the understanding of His commandment came, sin revived, and I died." Romans 7:9 (KJV)
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Anto9us said:
Paul is hypothetically speaking as if he is another person -- the real Saul of Tarsus was "brought up at the feet of Gamaliel" and was not PERSONALLY "alive without the Law once".
Click to expand...

One might say that is when the "commandment of the Law of God" was laid upon him for judgment to happen in his life. Note: It doesn't say when, at what point in his life, he began receiving that which would effect his conscience.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Anto9us said:
Thank you, GT.



But I am looking for words that justify the phrase:

"when very young"
Click to expand...

"Once"


Therefore, was I alive without the law of God,


when very young:


leaving me with a lack of guilt for sin but, when the understanding of His commandment came, sin revived, and I died." Romans 7:9 (KJV)
Click to expand...


When is a baby no longer innocent? When does the recognition of guilt begin in a child's mind? Where does the feeling of guilt originate? BTW, that was my paraphrase of the passage. Nothing more.
 
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