The "YOU MUST" Religions

[Robert Pate]

Paul wrote, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

What is a work of the law? A work of the law is any religious thing that one might do. The Pharisees came up with over 600 laws and rules for holy living called the Torah.

Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith. What we do or what we become does not save us. We are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus NOTHING.

Here are some of the "YOU MUST" religions.

CALVINISM: YOU MUST be predestinated or you will not be saved.

CATHOLICISM: YOU MUST be baptized into the Catholic church or you will not be saved.

CHURCH OF CHRIST: YOU MUST be baptized in water or you will not be saved.

PENTECOSTALISM: YOU MUST speak in tongues.

SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST: You MUST be baptized in water.

BAPTIST: YOU MUST be baptized in water.

All religions teach that YOU MUST do something to become a member of their church. YOU MUST obey and follow the rules and the laws of their church whatever they might be.

This is the exact thing that Paul taught against.

Laws, rules and conditions for membership into a church is a work of the law. The only condition for membership into any church should be, "Do you have faith in Christ?" On that and on that alone, should be the only condition for membership into any church.

 

[Ktoyou]

Some of my old-time favorites.

No drinking and dancing/ No music/ No gender mixing while seated in church.

One must do an 'alter call', the act of emoting and confessing ones sins at the church.

My all time favorite since I was a child. One must emote out and babble while in a state of frenzy. Also handle poisonous snakes.

Some kids would sneak off to these churches because their parents dislike the spectacle. Think a good expository sermon is best, well yes, but not when you are a kid.

 

[Robert Pate]

Some of my old-time favorites.

No drinking and dancing/ No music/ No gender mixing while seated in church.

One must do an 'alter call', the act of emoting and confessing ones sins at the church.

My all time favorite since I was a child. One must emote out and babble while in a state of frenzy. Also handle poisonous snakes.

Some kids would sneak off to these churches because their parents dislike the spectacle. Think a good expository sermon is best, well yes, but not when you are a kid.

I was also raised in a Pentecostal church. They had more laws and rules than the Supreme Court.

One that I thought was funny, No drinking out of a bottle. At picnic time everybody had to pour their soft drink into a cup.

 

[glassjester]

CATHOLICISM: YOU MUST be baptized into the Catholic church or you will not be saved.

That's what you say the Church teaches.

Now here's what the Church actually teaches:

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

Were you correct or incorrect about that Catholic doctrine?

 

[Robert Pate]

That's what you say the Church teaches.

Now here's what the Church actually teaches:




Were you correct or incorrect about that Catholic doctrine?

To become a member of the Catholic church or to be saved, YOU MUST go to catechism and then YOU MUST be baptized into the Catholic church. YOU MUST keep all of the laws and rules of the Catholic church. If you don't you will be anathema. Did I answer your question?

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

What is a work of the law? A work of the law is any religious thing that one might do.

Any religious thing one might do? So other examples of a "work of the law" would be:

You MUST have not false gods,
You MUST not bow down to carved images,
You MUST not take the name of the Lord in vain,
You MUST honor your father and mother,
You MUST not murder,
You MUST not commit adultery,
You MUST not steal,
You MUST not bear false witness,
You MUST not covet

You MUST Forgive others (as Jesus said in Matthew 6:14),
You MUST Love God and neighbor (as Jesus said in Luke 10:27-28)
You MUST Repent(as Jesus said in Matthew 4:17)
You MUST be born again (as Jesus said in John 3:5)
You MUST obey (as Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 1:8)

Are those NOT religious things?

Salvation always has been and always will be by grace through faith.
What we do or what we become does not save us.

Amen.

We are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus NOTHING.

I think you contradict this statement of yours down below.

All religions teach that YOU MUST do something to become a member of their church. YOU MUST obey and follow the rules and the laws of their church whatever they might be.

This is the exact thing that Paul taught against.

Laws, rules and conditions for membership into a church is a work of the law. The only condition for membership into any church should be, "Do you have faith in Christ?" On that and on that alone, should be the only condition for membership into any church.

[/QUOTE]

I bolded part of your statement above.

You seem to be saying "You MUST have faith in Christ."

Then your earlier statement you made should have said, "We are saved by the dying and the doing of Jesus, plus you MUST have faith in Christ."

So that "condition" is, by your own logic, a work of the law.

Welcome to the group of the "You MUST" religions, I guess.

Peace.

 

[glassjester]

Did I answer your question?

Yes. Just incorrectly.

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes. Just incorrectly.

When we first hear the Gospel we believe. We don't have to believe, but some believe and some don't, Hebrews 4:2. It is a natural response to the Gospel that is brought about by the Holy Spirit.

But according to the religious...

YOU MUST believe.

YOU MUST repent.

YOU MUST confess.

YOU MUST, YOU MUST, YOU MUST.

The Holy Spirit is replaced with the law and the church and we have another counterfeit Christian.

 

[glassjester]

But according to the religious...

YOU MUST believe.

You must believe? Why?

What happens if you don't?

 

[Ktoyou]

You must believe? Why?

What happens if you don't?

I some cases, hell awaits/

You must lean the person where the person is at, for a culture perspective. We tend to forget this when talking to others from the USA.

See the person clearly by what he or she says. Pay attention. Does the person know the difference between decisive religion and the Word of God?

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

When we first hear the Gospel we believe. We don't have to believe, but some believe and some don't, Hebrews 4:2. It is a natural response to the Gospel that is brought about by the Holy Spirit.

But according to the religious...

YOU MUST believe.

Then Jesus is religious "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:" John 1:12

YOU MUST repent.

Then Jesus is religious "From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17

YOU MUST confess.

Then Paul is religious "For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:10

YOU MUST, YOU MUST, YOU MUST.

The Holy Spirit is replaced with the law and the church and we have another counterfeit Christian.

Robert,

According to what you wrote......YOU MUST believe in Jesus.

Laws, rules and conditions for membership into a church is a work of the law. The only condition for membership into any church should be, "Do you have faith in Christ?" On that and on that alone, should be the only condition for membership into any church.

So even you believe that there is a "YOU MUST" condition.

I think what you are obviously really saying is that you agree with your "YOU MUST".

You just don't agree with anybody else's "YOU MUST".

I fail to see why your "YOU MUST" is correct and all others are not correct.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

I some cases, hell awaits/

You must lean the person where the person is at, for a culture perspective. We tend to forget this when talking to others from the USA.

See the person clearly by what he or she says. Pay attention. Does the person know the difference between decisive religion and the Word of God?

Hey Ktoyou,

Just curious, what is a decisive religion? I don't know what you mean by that.

Peace.

 

[Ktoyou]

Hey Ktoyou,

Just curious, what is a decisive religion? I don't know what you mean by that.

Peace.

Toute religion avec les pratiques établies, fondées sur un consensus.
.

 

[Robert Pate]

Then Jesus is religious "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:" John 1:12



Then Jesus is religious "From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17



Then Paul is religious "For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:10



Robert,

According to what you wrote......YOU MUST believe in Jesus.



So even you believe that there is a "YOU MUST" condition.

I think what you are obviously really saying is that you agree with your "YOU MUST".

You just don't agree with anybody else's "YOU MUST".

I fail to see why your "YOU MUST" is correct and all others are not correct.

Peace.

You don't really have to do anything to be saved, other than to hear and believe. And you don't have to do that if you don't want to be saved.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Toute religion avec les pratiques établies, fondées sur un consensus.
.

I almost know what you are saying. Care to clarify a little?

And how about in English please?

Thank you.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

You don't really have to do anything to be saved, other than to hear and believe. And you don't have to do that if you don't want to be saved.

Hey Robert,

In other words: If you want to be saved YOU MUST hear and believe.

Gotcha.

Thanks.

Peace.

 

[Ktoyou]

"Any religion with established practices, based on a consensus."

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

"Any religion with established practices, based on a consensus."

Ok. Thanks. That helps me understand a little better.

By the way did you mean "divisive" religion or "decisive" as you wrote?

I guess it doesn't really matter either way because I can see elements of both in the Church that Jesus founded. It can be divisive (not surprisingly since He said it would be) and decisive (not surprisingly since He said it would be).

I'm not sure either quality has to do with "based on a consensus", though.

That's an interesting thought, though. Thanks for sharing it.

Peace to you.

 

[Ktoyou]

Lorsqu'il est tard dans la nuit, parfois des mots anglais peut apparaître trop similaires, souvent à tort comme étant le même.

:idunno:

 

[Robert Pate]

Hey Robert,

In other words: If you want to be saved YOU MUST hear and believe.

Gotcha.

Thanks.

Peace.

Hearing and believing the Gospel is a very natural thing. It appears that you want to make it a law or a commandment. Very typical of someone that is religious.