RANSOM FOR MANY OR ALL ?

[DougE]

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Revealed to Paul, was the mystery, that the sacrificial death of Jesus was a ransom for all who would believe, both Jew and Gentile.

This mystery was not made known to the prophets of the old testament scriptures, neither to the twelve disciples. This mystery was hid in God and not made known to any before being revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:5 Ephesians 3:9).

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

What was made known in Matthew and Mark above, was that Christ gave his life to ransom many, not all. Christ gave his life to ransom Israel alone, the many. Christ redeemed the iniquities of Israel committed under the old testament (Hebrews 9:15).

Only the mystery revealed the ransom was for all, and was only testified in due time, when revealed to Paul.

 

[Right Divider]

The Bible is a book of details.

 

[DougE]

The Bible is a book of details.

Yes, and every word matters.

 

[God's Truth]

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Revealed to Paul, was the mystery, that the sacrificial death of Jesus was a ransom for all who would believe, both Jew and Gentile.

This mystery was not made known to the prophets of the old testament scriptures, neither to the twelve disciples. This mystery was hid in God and not made known to any before being revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:5 Ephesians 3:9).

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

What was made known in Matthew and Mark above, was that Christ gave his life to ransom many, not all. Christ gave his life to ransom Israel alone, the many. Christ redeemed the iniquities of Israel committed under the old testament (Hebrews 9:15).

Only the mystery revealed the ransom was for all, and was only testified in due time, when revealed to Paul.

John the baptizer said Jesus will take away the sins of the world.

Even the woman at the well knew Jesus was the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."


All can be saved, but now all will be saved because they don't obey Jesus.

 

[DougE]

John the baptizer said Jesus will take away the sins of the world.

Even the woman at the well knew Jesus was the Savior of the world.



1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."


All can be saved, but now all will be saved because they don't obey Jesus.

The mystery was hid in God before it was revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:9), and therefore, could not have been made known beforehand. That Jesus was saviour of the world could not have been according to mystery, so therefore, it was prophecy. In prophecy, Isaiah 52:10 declared his salvation unto the world, as well as in Genesis 12:3, Psalm 72:17, and Psalm 98:2-3.

Paul not only preached mystery, but the law and prophets (Romans 16:25-26). In Acts 13:47, Paul cited Isaiah 49:6, and said they were commanded to go unto the Gentiles, which was according to the purpose of God in bringing salvation to the Gentiles.

Also the Gentile nations will be saved in the kingdom on earth through Israel, and their sins forgiven.

 

[God's Truth]

The mystery was hid in God before it was revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:9),and therefore, could not have been made known beforehand.

I gave you scripture of John the baptizer and a woman at a well and you are going to act like those scriptures don't exist?

That Jesus was saviour of the world could not have been according to mystery, so therefore, it was prophecy. In prophecy, Isaiah 52:10 declared his salvation unto the world, as well as in Genesis 12:3, Psalm 72:17, and Psalm 98:2-3.

So why are you saying it was the mystery hid then?

Paul not only preached mystery, but the law and prophets (Romans 16:25-26). In Acts 13:47, Paul cited Isaiah 49:6, and said they were commanded to go unto the Gentiles, which was according to the purpose of God in bringing salvation to the Gentiles.

Also the Gentile nations will be saved in the kingdom on earth through Israel, and their sins forgiven.

The Gentiles are being saved since the New Testament times.

 

[God's Truth]

Luke 2:32
a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel."

Acts 13:47
For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"

Acts 26:23
that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles."


Same one and only gospel mystery revealed.

Same gospel revealed in LUKE as IN ACTS, ACTS OF THE APOSTLES.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul explains how Jesus reveals in depth the depth of God’s love to those who love him by obeying him.
This revelation comes by the Spirit that was given at the right time set by God, and how no one fully grasped the full meaning of this, nor understood exactly what it was that God would do for us.

Paul speaks of the holy apostles and prophets have this revelation.

Ephesians 3

3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[God's Truth]

If the rulers of the world would have grasped that Jesus would die for the sins of the world, they would have not let him be killed, they would have tried to stop it as workers for Satan. They were hardened and did not have eyes to see and understand.

 

[Bradley D]

For "many." To those who persevere to the end

Pulpit Commentary
"When our Lord says that he came "to give his life a ransom for many," he regards the vast multitude of those who are included within his purposes of mercy. He "is the Savior of all men, specially of them that believe."

 

[DougE]

For "many." To those who persevere to the end

Pulpit Commentary
"When our Lord says that he came "to give his life a ransom for many," he regards the vast multitude of those who are included within his purposes of mercy. He "is the Savior of all men, specially of them that believe."

It is the believing remnant of Israel that must endure to the end to enter the kingdom on earth, not the body of Christ.

 

[DougE]

I gave you scripture of John the baptizer and a woman at a well and you are going to act like those scriptures don't exist?



So why are you saying it was the mystery hid then?



The Gentiles are being saved since the New Testament times.

Originally posted by DougE View Post
That Jesus was saviour of the world could not have been according to mystery, so therefore, it was prophecy. In prophecy, Isaiah 52:10 declared his salvation unto the world, as well as in Genesis 12:3, Psalm 72:17, and Psalm 98:2-3.

So why are you saying it was the mystery hid then?

That God would bring salvation to the Gentiles was not a mystery, the Gentiles would be saved through Israel (Isaiah 60:3).

The mystery was that the Gentiles could be saved by faith in Christ, not through Israel.

The mystery was, that by the body of Christ, the heavenly places would be reconciled.

 

[Right Divider]

Originally posted by DougE View Post
That Jesus was saviour of the world could not have been according to mystery, so therefore, it was prophecy. In prophecy, Isaiah 52:10 declared his salvation unto the world, as well as in Genesis 12:3, Psalm 72:17, and Psalm 98:2-3.

So why are you saying it was the mystery hid then?

That God would bring salvation to the Gentiles was not a mystery, the Gentiles would be saved through Israel (Isaiah 60:3).

The mystery was that the Gentiles could be saved by faith in Christ, not through Israel.

The mystery was, that by the body of Christ, the heavenly places would be reconciled.

Keep preaching the truth Doug... they don't have ears to hear.... but keep preaching it anyway.

 

[God's Truth]

Originally posted by DougE View Post
That Jesus was saviour of the world could not have been according to mystery, so therefore, it was prophecy. In prophecy, Isaiah 52:10 declared his salvation unto the world, as well as in Genesis 12:3, Psalm 72:17, and Psalm 98:2-3.

So why are you saying it was the mystery hid then?

I say it was a mystery hid because it wasn't fully understood or known in depth.

Why do you think that Paul is the only apostle that had the mystery fully known revealed to him???

Why do you think that he was the first apostle that had it revealed to him, or the only one?

Paul is not the first apostle to have the mystery revealed to him.

Even Paul says it was revealed to the holy apostles and the prophets---there were prophets and holy apostles before Paul.

Paul also said the mystery was revealed by the Holy Spirit---not by Paul.

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

That God would bring salvation to the Gentiles was not a mystery, the Gentiles would be saved through Israel (Isaiah 60:3).

The mystery was that the Gentiles could be saved by faith in Christ, not through Israel.

Salvation came from Israel. Gentiles and all people who get saved can say their salvation came from the Jews.


John 4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.



So no more strange teachings about divided Jews and Gentiles and different gospels.

The mystery was, that by the body of Christ, the heavenly places would be reconciled.

That is the mystery understood in more detail.

Jesus taught the apostle when he walked the earth that they are to remain in him. That is about being in the body of Christ.

He also told them he would bring them with him to heaven.

So no more talk that Paul was the only apostle, or even the first apostle to know the mystery in depth.

The mystery revealed in depth is given by the Spirit, and the apostles who walked with Jesus received the Spirit before Paul came.

 

[DougE]

I say it was a mystery hid because it wasn't fully understood or known in depth.

Why do you think that Paul is the only apostle that had the mystery fully known revealed to him???

Why do you think that he was the first apostle that had it revealed to him, or the only one?

Paul is not the first apostle to have the mystery revealed to him.

Even Paul says it was revealed to the holy apostles and the prophets---there were prophets and holy apostles before Paul.

Paul also said the mystery was revealed by the Holy Spirit---not by Paul.

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;




Salvation came from Israel. Gentiles and all people who get saved can say their salvation came from the Jews.


John 4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.



So no more strange teachings about divided Jews and Gentiles and different gospels.



That is the mystery understood in more detail.

Jesus taught the apostle when he walked the earth that they are to remain in him. That is about being in the body of Christ.

He also told them he would bring them with him to heaven.

So no more talk that Paul was the only apostle, or even the first apostle to know the mystery in depth.

The mystery revealed in depth is given by the Spirit, and the apostles who walked with Jesus received the Spirit before Paul came.

Why do you think that Paul is the only apostle that had the mystery fully known revealed to him???

The mystery was revealed to Paul because that is what is stated by him Ephesians 3:3


Even Paul says it was revealed to the holy apostles and the prophets---there were prophets and holy apostles before Paul.

They were apostles at the time Paul was speaking of, not Peter and the twelve

 

[God's Truth]

Why do you think that Paul is the only apostle that had the mystery fully known revealed to him???

The mystery was revealed to Paul because that is what is stated by him Ephesians 3:3


Even Paul says it was revealed to the holy apostles and the prophets---there were prophets and holy apostles before Paul.

They were apostles at the time Paul was speaking of, not Peter and the twelve

You are mixed up, because I have been telling you that Paul is not the first apostle to know the one and only gospel, for Peter and the other Apostles to the Lamb knew the one and only gospel first.

 

[Right Divider]

You are mixed up, because I have been telling you that Paul is not the first apostle to know the one and only gospel, for Peter and the other Apostles to the Lamb knew the one and only gospel first.

What you say and what scripture says are two different things.

 

[God's Truth]

What you say and what scripture says are two different things.

Paul says he is the minister of the one and only gospel, and he quoted Jesus when he made the covenant, and he also had the GENTILE CORINTHIANS do the Lord's supper in remembrance of the covenant.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul says he is the minister of the one and only gospel, and he quoted Jesus when he made the covenant, and he also had the GENTILE CORINTHIANS do the Lord's supper in remembrance of the covenant.

Always CHANGING the "word" just a little.... twisting.... perverting....

2Co 3:6 KJV Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Notice that WE are ALL "able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:"

Nothing whatsoever about being UNDER the new COVENANT. Jeremiah 31.

 

[God's Truth]

Always CHANGING the "word" just a little.... twisting.... perverting....

Never ever.

Notice that WE are ALL "able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:"

Nothing whatsoever about being UNDER the new COVENANT. Jeremiah 31.

You left out all those scriptures I gave about Paul quoting Jesus at the last supper when he made the covenant.