ECT Principles of Spiritual Growth

[Jerry Shugart]

In the following verse the Apostle Peter tells the Christian how to grow:

"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Pet.3:18).​

Norman Douty offers some helpful advice as to how to accomplish this:

"If I am to be like Him, then God in His grace must do it, and the sooner I come to recognize it the sooner I will be delivered from another form of bondage. Throw down every endeavor and say, I cannot do it, the more I try the farther i get from His likeness. What shall I do? Ah, the Holy Spirit says, You cannot do it; just withdraw; come out of it. You have been in the arena, you have been endeavoring, you are a failure, come out and sit down, and as you sit there behold Him, look at Him. Don't try to be like Him, just look at Him. Just be occupied with Him. Forget about trying to be like Him. Instead of letting that fill our mind and heart, let Him fill it. Just behold Him, look upon Him through the Word. Come to the Word for one purpose and that is to meet the Lord. Not to get your mind crammed full of things about the sacred Word, but come to meet the Lord. Make it to be a medium, not of Biblical scholarship, but of fellowship with Christ" (Miles J. Stanford, Principles of Spiritual Growth [Lincoln, NE: Back to the Bible, 1991], 26-27).​

 

[northwye]

The question that interests me for this thread is what relationship is there, in dispensationalist theology, between spiritual growth and these New Testament scriptures:

Becoming born again by the Spirit (John 3: 1-6), being transformed by the renewing of their minds (Romans 12: 2), a transformation that makes them new creatures or creations (II Corinthians 5: 17, Galatians 6: 15), with Christ in them, the hope of glory (Colossians 1: 27), and makes them part of the Israel of God (Galatians 6: 15-16)

Dispensationalists sometimes divide these six scriptures in some way from one another, so that, for example being born again in John 3: 1-6 means something different from being transformed by the renewing of your mind in Romans 12: 2. And so dispensationalists might think that Spiritual Growth has a meaning different from any one or more of these scriptures listed above.

The literalist "Hermeneutic" of dispoensationalism might lead dispensationalists to make strong separations between the meaning of one or more of these scriptures listed. As a result of the use of the Literalistic "Hermeneutic" dispensationalists might want to apply different gist meanings to John 3: 1-6, Romans 12: 2, II Corinthians 5: 17,and Colossians 1: 27. The concept of a gist meaning itself may not be a part of the Literalist Hermeneutic.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If a person knows when the present dispensation began then he will know that the following things play no part in his own spiritual growth:

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

If a Christian thinks these gifts belong to him at the present time then his growth will be stunted. Before a Christian can grow it is absolutely necessary to understand which things belong to the present dispensation and which things do not.

 

[Jacob]

O to be like Thee! O to be like Thee!
Blessed Redeemer, pure as Thou art;
Come in Thy sweetness, come in Thy fullness;
Stamp Thine own image deep on my heart.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit" (2 Cor.3:16-18).​

 

[Aimiel]

If a person knows when the present dispensation began then he will know that the following things play no part in his own spiritual growth:

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:15-18).​

If a Christian thinks these gifts belong to him at the present time then his growth will be stunted. Before a Christian can grow it is absolutely necessary to understand which things belong to the present dispensation and which things do not.

Haven't read that 'dispensation' verse that disposed of the Gifts of The Holy Spirit. I thank God that He gave the five-fold ministry gifts to The Church: Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists and Teachers. He also still gives the gifts of The Spirit to whomsoever will trust Him in that regard:

Word of wisdom;
Word of knowledge;
Faith;
Gifts of healings;
Miracles;
Prophecy;
Discerning of spirits, and;
Tongues.

If you don't believe God for these things, there's no punishment or anything, but these gifts are from God and they're available; you just have to believe His Word and trust Him. Believing someone who doesn't believe in these things isn't wise, since they're obviously not taking God at His Word. He doesn't take back gifts that He gives. He is a Giver. He is still alive and He wants to give good gifts to His Children.

 

[northwye]

Instead of focusing upon preaching the Gospel of Christ, dispensationalists on TOL now focus upon the issue of making divisions in the Gospel of Christ in the New Testament. This attention to issues of a systematic theology with all its theologically correct divisions does not lead people to become born again (John 3: 1-6), become transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12: 2), becoming a new creature or creation (II Corinthians 5: 17 and Galatians 6: 15), having Christ in you, which is the hope of glory (Colossians 1: 27) and becoming part of the Body of Christ (Ephesians 2: 16) which is also the same as becoming part of the Israel of God (Galatians 6: 15-16).

What these New Testament scriptures teach is interpreted by Reformation Theology. You can use the commentaries by John Calvin to get an idea of what Reformation Theology says on these scriptures.

Dispensationalism is in opposition to or is the anti-thesis (I Timothy 6: 20-21) to Reformation Theology. Dispensationalists claim that Reformation Theology is "Replacement Theology,"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Gifts of healings

Since many claim to have that gift then why haven't we seen a public healing like the one described here?:

"Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. And all the people saw him walking and praising God: And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him. And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering" (Acts 3:1-10).​

Aimiel, have you had a good dose of deadly poison today to see if you will harm you or not?

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:16-18).​

If not, why not?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Instead of focusing upon preaching the Gospel of Christ, dispensationalists on TOL now focus upon the issue of making divisions in the Gospel of Christ in the New Testament. This attention to issues of a systematic theology with all its theologically correct divisions does not lead people to become born again (John 3: 1-6), become transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12: 2), becoming a new creature or creation (II Corinthians 5: 17 and Galatians 6: 15), having Christ in you, which is the hope of glory (Colossians 1: 27) and becoming part of the Body of Christ (Ephesians 2: 16) which is also the same as becoming part of the Israel of God (Galatians 6: 15-16).

Dispensationalists preach the gospel of grace all the time. They also preach, unlike the Calvinists, that Christ "tasted death for every man" (Heb.2:9) and not for just some men.

 

[Aimiel]

Since many claim to have that gift then why haven't we seen a public healing like the one described here?:

(Bible quote deleted for brevity)

I have. Whether you believe in God's Healing Power or not is up to you. It's available, whether you ever avail yourself of it or not is up to you.

Aimiel, have you had a good dose of deadly poison today to see if you will harm you or not?

I would never tempt God but I do believe that, should I need Him to: He'd protect me from such an attack as Paul suffered. I have faith in The Living God, not in a god who only operated in the past but not today.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have.

Benny Hinn doesn't count!

 

[Aimiel]

Benny Hinn doesn't count!

I wasn't basing my beliefs on a man. I've seen healings through the laying on of my own hands.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I've seen healings through the laying on of my own hands.

Why is there not documentary evidence, evidence which cannot be questioned, where a healing like the following one has been performed?:

"Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. And all the people saw him walking and praising God: And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him. And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering" (Acts 3:1-10).​

If such a healing of this type is being performed today then many witnesses could testify that the healed person was lame from his birth and they actually saw him being healed in the name of the Lord Jesus and there is video evidence of such a healing.

Evidence like that would make the headlines of newspapers across the world but there has never been any solid evidence like what I just mentioned. Why is that?

It is because healing and miracles belonged to a past dispensation. If you want more info on this subject read "SPIRIT MANIFESTATIONS AND THE GIFT OF TONGUES" by Sir Robert Anderson:

http://www.newble.co.uk/anderson/gifts.html

 

[northwye]

"Dispensationalists preach the gospel of grace all the time. They also preach, unlike the Calvinists, that Christ "tasted death for every man" (Heb.2:9) and not for just some men. "

Read the commentaries by John Calvin on John 3: 1-6, Romans 12: 2, II Corinthians 5: 17, Galatians 6: 15, Colossians 1: 27, and Galatians 6: 15-16. This is an important part of Reformation Theology, which emphasizes the transformation of the individual in Jesus Christ.

A vigorous American Christianity, which emphasizes that transformation of the individual in John 3: 1-6, Romans 12: 2, II Corinthians 5: 17, Galatians 6: 15, Colossians 1: 27, and Galatians 6: 15-16, could oppose and successfully defeat that attack upon it by the Left under Marxism and could protect an older Northern Renaissance and Reformation Culture derived from Reformation Theology in the vigorous Christianity.

But that Reformation Theology has been weakened from within by a theology which is more interested in making divisions in the New Testament Gospel than it is in that transformation by the Holy Spirit.

It may be that in their focus on the divisions of their particular form of dispensationalism, many of the TOl dispensationalists do not know that there was once a vigorous American Protestant Christianity - based upon Reformation Theology - which came out of the Great Awakening of the 18th century, before the Revolutionary War.

Dispensationalism focuses its attention upon the multitude, when in fact it is that multitude, in part led by dispensationalism, which is following a theology which disagrees with many New Testament scriptures. When the multitude goes off into false doctrines God raises up a remnant to continue his plan of redemption.

But dispensationalists cannot admit that there is a prophecy about a remnant existing in the time of the Church Age in Revelation 12: 15-17. I have never seen anything ever mentioned about Revelation 12: 15-17 by a dispensationalist on TOL.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Dispensationalism focuses its attention upon the multitude, when in fact it is that multitude, in part led by dispensationalism, which is following a theology which disagrees with many New Testament scriptures.

Please be more specific. In what way does it disagree with NT scriptures? Just name one or as many was you want.

Thanks!

 

[northwye]

I have a thread on this forum now - "ECT: The Fulfillment of Jeremiah 18: 1-6 In Ephesians 2: 11-13 and Romans 11: 17-20." Which deals with two New Testament scriptures which say that Gentiles are joined to "the Commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2: 12-13)" by the blood of Christ and that Gentiles who believe are grafted in to the root of the olive tree (Romans 11: 17) referring to the good olive tree of Romans 11: 24.

Both scriptures disagree with the division that dispensationalism makes between Old Covenant Israel and the Church. Paul does not say exactly that Gentiles are grafted into Old Covenant Israel. Its the Israel of God in Galatians 6: 16 that Gentiles are grafted into, another teaching that would seem to be contrary to dispensationalism.

John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5 and Ephesians 4: 4 deal with the doctrine that God has one group of his elect, not two groups as dispensationalism postulates. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28, and Colossians 3: 11, as well as Ephesians 2: 11-15 focus on the doctrine that there is a unity of all who are in faith, regardless of their genetics, that is, that there is a unity between believing Gentiles and believing Jews. This contradicts dispensationalim's postulate that God has two separate peoples Old Covenant Israel and the Church. Romans 2: 28-29 is a little more subtle, but these two verses imply that there is a transformation for Jews who come to faith in Christ, and for them things of the flesh, are no longer important but things of the Spirit are important. This is not in line with the dispensationalist system, which apparently continues to honor the physical bloodline from Abraham.

Romans 9: 6-8 says that not all of those of the physical bloodline are the children of God, that is, of the elect, and that the children only of the flesh, that is of the bloodline, are not the children of God. Then I Corinthians 10: 18 affirms again that there is a group under the Old Covenant who are of the Bloodline but are not God's children.

Romans 11: 17-20 says that those of the physical Bloodline who were in unbelief are cut off, contradicting the dispensationalist position that all of the Bloodline are of the elect. from their interpretation of Romans 11: 26 that "all Israel shall be saved" means all of the bloodline, even though Paul in Romans and in Romans 11 teaches that the elect are made up of saved Jews (the remnant of Israel, Romans 11: 1-5) and saved Gentiles.

II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Hebrews 10: 9, and Hebrews 8: 13 all say that the Old Covenant was done away with, disagreeing with a fundamental assumption of dispensationalism, that the Old Covenant continues with its Old Covenant people, along with the Church.

Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by faith and not by that which is physical, Paul says in Galatians 3: 14 'That the blessings of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. " "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither male nor female : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

 

[Aimiel]

Why is there not documentary evidence, evidence which cannot be questioned, where a healing like the following one has been performed?:

(Bible quote deleted for brevity)

If such a healing of this type is being performed today then many witnesses could testify that the healed person was lame from his birth and they actually saw him being healed in the name of the Lord Jesus and there is video evidence of such a healing.

Evidence like that would make the headlines of newspapers across the world but there has never been any solid evidence like what I just mentioned. Why is that?

It is because healing and miracles belonged to a past dispensation. If you want more info on this subject read "SPIRIT MANIFESTATIONS AND THE GIFT OF TONGUES" by Sir Robert Anderson

I believe that God wants men to take Him at His Word, not believe in Him because they see miracles or a pillar of fire or pillar of cloud. If you don't like the mystery that He seems to like to operate under: take it up with Him. I only know what I've seen and it wasn't until I believed that He was a miracle-working God that I saw miracles; just like it wasn't until I believed that the gifts of The Holy Spirit are still in operation and asked Him to make use of me (as He wills) that I saw such gifts in operation and also saw them in my own ministry. Again: all these gifts are on the table in front of you, which He has prepared before you in the presence of your enemies; you just have to believe and take whatever you need. If you don't want any of them or don't want to believe Him for them: it's okay, but they're there, nonetheless.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have a thread on this forum now - "ECT: The Fulfillment of Jeremiah 18: 1-6 In Ephesians 2: 11-13 and Romans 11: 17-20." Which deals with two New Testament scriptures which say that Gentiles are joined to "the Commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2: 12-13)" by the blood of Christ and that Gentiles who believe are grafted in to the root of the olive tree (Romans 11: 17) referring to the good olive tree of Romans 11: 24.

You are totally confused because the verses which you cite proves no such thing. When Israel was in a covenant relationship with the LORD the Jews were a special people unto Him, above all the people on the face of the earth (Deut.7:6).

On the other hand, in the body of Christ all national distinctions have been abolished:

"And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all" (Col.3:10-11).​

So the Jews who were baptized into the Body of Christ in the first century were no longer above all the people on the face of the earth because in the Body all such national distinctions have been done away with. That means that the commonwealth of Israel and the Body of Christ are mutually exclusive.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I believe that God wants men to take Him at His Word, not believe in Him because they see miracles or a pillar of fire or pillar of cloud.

Were not the Apostles to go forth and heal the sick? Of course they were in the past dispensation. But why in the present dispensation Paul could not heal Epaphroditus when he lay sick nigh unto death by his side at Rome (Phil.2:27)? During the present dispensation Paul left Trophimus lying sick at Miletum (2 Timothy 4:20).

Since you say that the following words of the Lord Jesus are principles in force during the present dispensation then why was Paul unable to heal those men?:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:17-18).​

If Paul had the power to heal Epaphroditus when he lay sick near unto death he would have healed his friend. But the gift of healing is not for the present dispensation.

 

[Aimiel]

Were not the Apostles to go forth and heal the sick? Of course they were in the past dispensation. But why in the present dispensation Paul could not heal Epaphroditus when he lay sick nigh unto death by his side at Rome (Phil.2:27)? During the present dispensation Paul left Trophimus lying sick at Miletum (2 Timothy 4:20).

Since you say that the following words of the Lord Jesus are principles in force during the present dispensation then why was Paul unable to heal those men?:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:17-18).​

If Paul had the power to heal Epaphroditus when he lay sick near unto death he would have healed his friend. But the gift of healing is not for the present dispensation.

Some only come out by prayer and fasting. Paul lamented that he was the Chief of Sinners and I don't doubt his words. I don't know why his prayer wasn't answered, but we can ask him one day. Your dispensation theory, where did you get that from? I don't see it in my Bible.