Origins of the Hebrew Alphabet - Pictographic Symbols

[beameup]

 

[daqq]

At about 1:47 he says that the image of a hand was/is the letter "Yad", (hand), but that really is not the case because it is most commonly known as Yod, (Yodh), or Yud, and moreover the pictograph-symbol is clearly not just a hand but an ARM, (with a hand at the end of it).

 

[beameup]

At about 1:47 he says that the image of a hand was/is the letter "Yad", (hand), but that really is not the case because it is most commonly known as Yod, (Yodh), or Yud, and moreover the pictograph-symbol is clearly not just a hand but an ARM, (with a hand at the end of it).

Here is the Pictorial Hebrew (above) and the Babylonian "square" Script:

 

[daqq]

Here is the Pictorial Hebrew (above) and the Babylonian "square" Script:

Problem is now you have an arm, not a hand, (yad), and even worse the waw or vav was also used originally in the Ashuri Script as a word separator because, like ancient Uncial Greek texts, the original Hebrew square script was written in "scriptura continua" form, (without spacing), and for the same reason there are manifold places in the LXX where the waw-vav is clearly being recognized as a word separator right in the middle of the Name, (because Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not know the Tetragrammaton name of the Father, as per Exodus 6:3). And now, with the Genesis Tablet theory becoming much more widely accepted, this actually makes perfect sense. IMO the first pictograph is better understood as Ya, the (right) Arm of YHWH.

 

[beameup]

Problem is now you have an arm, not a hand, (yad), and even worse the waw or vav was also used originally in the Ashuri Script as a word separator because, like ancient Uncial Greek texts, the original Hebrew square script was written in "scriptura continua" form, (without spacing), and for the same reason there are manifold places in the LXX where the waw-vav is clearly being recognized as a word separator right in the middle of the Name, (because Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not know the Tetragrammaton name of the Father, as per Exodus 6:3). And now, with the Genesis Tablet theory becoming much more widely accepted, this actually makes perfect sense. IMO the first pictograph is better understood as Ya, the (right) Arm of YHWH.

I believe your "sources" of information on Hebrew have not been first-rate.
You seem to be lacking in your understanding of ancient near-East cultures
and the "vocabulary" associated with that early period in man's history.

 

[daqq]

I believe your "sources" of information on Hebrew have not been first-rate.
You seem to be lacking in your understanding of ancient near-East cultures
and the "vocabulary" associated with that early period in man's history.

Hmmm, one of my better sources is Paul, whom you say preaches your Gospel:

Psalm 68:1-18
1 Elohim arises, His enemies are scattered: and those who hate Him flee before Him!
2 As smoke is driven away, You drive them away; as wax melts before the fire, the wicked perish before Elohim.
3 But the righteous are glad, they exult before Elohim; and they rejoice with gladness.
4 Sing to Elohim, sing praises to His name: raise up a highway for He Who rides through the deserts, and exult before Him, His name is Yah.
5 A father to orphans, and an Advocate of widows, this is Elohim in His holy habitation.
6 Elohim makes a home for the lonely, He brings out to prosperity those who are bound with chains; only the rebellious shall dwell in a dry-arid land.
7 O Elohim, when You went out before Your people, when You stepped through the wilderness: (Pause)
8 The earth shook, and the heavens dropped before Elohim; this Sinai shook before Elohim, the Elohim of Yisrael.
9 You, O Elohim, sent a shower of plenty: You confirmed Your inheritance when it was weary.
10 Your flock dwelt therein, You provided from Your goodness for the poor, O Elohim.
11 YHWH gave the Word, and the women who proclaimed it were a great company.
12 Kings of armies fled in haste, and she who remained at home divided the spoil.
13 Though you have lien between hooks, (or dwelt among lips), Wings of a dove, overlaid with silver, and feathers overlaid with bright gold!
14 When the Almighty scattered kings therein, it snowed in Tsalmon.
15 A hill of Elohim is the hill of Bashan; a hill of heights is the hill of Bashan:
16 O high hills, why should you envy the mount which Elohim has desired for His Seat? YHWH tabernacles therein continually.
17 The chariots of Elohim are two myriads and thousands of thousands: Adoni came from Sinai, into the Holy Sanctuary.
18 You have ascended on High, You have led captivity captive, You have apportioned gifts among men: Yea, that even among those having been turned away, Yah Elohim might dwell.

Ephesians 4:4-15
4 One body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one expectation of your calling:
5 One Master, one faith, one immersion:
6 One Elohim and Father of all, Who is over all, and through all, and in all.
7 But unto each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Messiah.
8 Wherefore he says, "When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men." ^{Psa 68:18}
9 Moreover this, "he ascended", what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.
11 And he gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers:
12 For the perfecting of the holy ones, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Messiah:
13 Until we all attain unto the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of Elohim, unto a full grown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Messiah:
14 That we may no longer be babes, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error:
15 But speaking truth in love, may grow up in all things into him who is the head, Messiah:

Paul quotes Psalm 68:18 and directly applies it to the Meshiah, the Son of Elohim, and Psalm 68:18 speaks of the Son of YHWH Elohim: and that is by the plain text, YHWH Elohim gave the Word, Yah Elohim.

 

[beameup]

Hmmm, one of my better sources is Paul, whom you say preaches your Gospel:

My Gospel??

The subject of the Original Post is the Original Hebrew Language, ie: Pictographic (hieroglyphic) Hebrew
This reveals the non-Greek, ("Asian") "worldview" of ancient Hebrews, and the language that resulted from that worldview and cosmology.
Perhaps you are limited by the strictly "logical" worldview derived from Greek culture.

 

[daqq]

My Gospel??

The subject of the Original Post is the Original Hebrew Language, ie: Pictographic (hieroglyphic) Hebrew
This reveals the non-Greek, ("Asian") "worldview" of ancient Hebrews, and the language that resulted from that worldview and cosmology.
Perhaps you are limited by the strictly "logical" worldview derived from Greek culture.

Do you suppose that those who rendered the LXX did not understand what they were reading? If so, big mistake, because they had a better understanding than what is known by much of scholarship even today; and they actually did not even read the text in the way that scholarship reads it today because the text is not written the same way anymore. The original Babylonian Ashuri Script did not even contain final form letters, and the words within a line of text were not separated by anything more than the waw-vav, (making it extremely difficult to read and understand). In that form of the text the waw-vav was sometimes read as part of a word and sometimes as nothing more than a word separator. That is precisely why you will find the Tetragrammaton in some places in the modern Hebrew text where the LXX reads Theos instead, (which is now of course mostly rendered as "God" in English translations, but that is not always what they intended, for "Yah" is also rendered Theos in the LXX in various places, (and some of those places are unknown to most for lack of serious study)).

Moreover I quoted a Psalm and I quoted the apostle Paul quoting from that Psalm in my previous post. Are you now claiming Paul is a Hellenizer too? I say your idea of "cosmology" is nothing more than a nice sounding word for make-up artistry because you and your OP video-clip author cannot even tell the difference between a pictograph of a fully jointed arm with a hand and a simple hand by itself. How can you not know the difference between an arm and a hand and think yourselves to be so wise? If your paradigm blinders cause you to look at a fully formed stick-figure arm, with a hand at the end of it, and yet the only thing you see is a hand, then you have a much more serious problem with your thick dogma glasses than to need to worry about Hellenization. :chuckle:

 

[chair]

Here is the Pictorial Hebrew (above) and the Babylonian "square" Script:

Where does the pictorial "behold" appear in that video?

 

[daqq]

Where does the pictorial "behold" appear in that video?

There is no physical archeological evidence anywhere of the Name having been written in the "Hyksos" Egyptian glyphs that we see plastered all over the internet and in this thread. It really is pretty much an internet phenomenon being fomented by way of drawings and charts made on computers and that's it. The fact is that there really is no true physical evidence at all. The "Hyksos" never wrote the Name because they were Egyptian slaves working in turquoise mines and did not worship or even know the Name. They apparently came up with their own crude alphabet based on what they had seen and the little they had learned from Egyptian hieroglyphs. The "man with his hands raised", (which you see in red in the post you quoted), is also nothing more than someone's imagination depicting a forced graphic representation of an original glyph that looks much more like a crooked cactus. There really is not even any evidence that the actual image is supposed to depict a man with his hands raised up; the interpretation is nothing more than a guess. If you search google image files for the Hyksos version of the letter Hey you will see what I mean: nowhere will you find an actual carving of what you see in red above, but rather, you will find what looks like a three-pronged cactus with a bent stump on the bottom of it. Moreover these Hyksos etchings are only found in about three main places which are all close to Egypt. There is not even a shred of solid evidence that this is indeed, "ancient Hebrew", (lol).

 

[daqq]

This appears to be from the same author as the OP video clip:

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/alphabet_evolution.html

Apparently the red version of the letter Hey is the PC-generated Hyksos Version 2.0.

 

[6days]

The origin of the Hebrew alphabet, may have had nothing to do with simple pictographs, but we can't be sure. Adam was created with language and intelligence, so he may also have had the ability to of complex written language.

 

[beameup]

There is no physical archeological evidence anywhere of the Name having been written in the "Hyskos" Egyptian glyphs

Yet another example, by daq, of diversion with fake information to confuse the naïve.
The Hyksos were Semitic invaders from Mesopotamia, who took over Lower Egypt and forced the native Egyptians into Upper Egypt. The Hyksos were in control of the Delta region when Joseph was brought into Egypt. Joseph found favor because, like the Hyksos Pharaoh, he was Semite.
By the time of Moses, the Hyksos had long been overthrown, and forced to flee Egypt via the Mediterranean.
So, the Pharaoh of Moses didn't know about Joseph, he only knew that the Hebrews were non-Egyptian Semites, and so were made slaves.

 

[chair]

Yet another example, by daq, of diversion with fake information to confuse the naïve.
The Hyksos were Semitic invaders from Mesopotamia, who took over Lower Egypt and forced the native Egyptians into Upper Egypt. The Hyksos were in control of the Delta region when Joseph was brought into Egypt. Joseph found favor because, like the Hyksos Pharaoh, he was Semite.
By the time of Moses, the Hyksos had long been overthrown, and forced to flee Egypt via the Mediterranean.
So, the Pharaoh of Moses didn't know about Joseph, he only knew that the Hebrews were non-Egyptian Semites, and so were made slaves.

He was pointing out that there was no physical evidence of that pictograph. If there is, please post a link to the evidence- not someone's drawing, but a photo of that pictograph.

 

[chair]

I believe your "sources" of information on Hebrew have not been first-rate.
You seem to be lacking in your understanding of ancient near-East cultures
and the "vocabulary" associated with that early period in man's history.

I think you are confusing the language with the way it is written. Languages are spoken. Writing, especially alphabetic writing, is a way of recording the language. Though the letters may have started out as pictographs, once they are letters, the pictograph origin of the letter is no longer important.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

The origin of the Hebrew alphabet, may have had nothing to do with simple pictographs, but we can't be sure. Adam was created with language and intelligence, so he may also have had the ability to of complex written language.

Hebrew was the language that Adam spoke. It was also the language of Noah and Shem whose language was not changed post flood after Babel. Hebrew has never struck me as being a pictographic language as the early Hebrew language that Abraham spoke much less the antideluvian variant isn't known. That said it is the first and original language known to mankind, although the Hebrew appellation would have been used after the flood. I guess there would have been no need to give the language a name in the antediluvian world as all of mankind spoke the same language anyway.

 

[daqq]

Yet another example, by daq, of diversion with fake information to confuse the naïve.
The Hyksos were Semitic invaders from Mesopotamia, who took over Lower Egypt and forced the native Egyptians into Upper Egypt. The Hyksos were in control of the Delta region when Joseph was brought into Egypt. Joseph found favor because, like the Hyksos Pharaoh, he was Semite.
By the time of Moses, the Hyksos had long been overthrown, and forced to flee Egypt via the Mediterranean.
So, the Pharaoh of Moses didn't know about Joseph, he only knew that the Hebrews were non-Egyptian Semites, and so were made slaves.

How is it a diversion to state a fact? Facts are facts, there is no archeological evidence where the Tetragrammaton has ever been found written in the Hyksos pictographs: nowhere, nada, nothing, none. The only place one may find the Tetragrammaton written in the Hyksos pictographic alphabet is on the internet and in threads like this one. Can you show me a stela, a monument, a tomb etching, a tablet, a cave carving, a pottery shard, or at least something? Nope, you cannot, but you can certainly post a plethora of slick looking PC-generated graphics, right? So who needs facts, right? Facts are apparently nothing more than a diversion if you truly want to beleeeve what Beameup beleeeves!

 

[chair]

I guess beameup is on vacation- no responses from him recently....

 

[beameup]

I think you are confusing the language with the way it is written. Languages are spoken. Writing, especially alphabetic writing, is a way of recording the language. Though the letters may have started out as pictographs, once they are letters, the pictograph origin of the letter is no longer important.

Like Egyptian hieroglyphics, the origins of Hebrew are Pictographic in nature. The graph is to convey a concept via illustration.
The Semitic Hyksos were invaders and conquerors of Northern Egypt from Mesopotamia. As such, they would have used cuneiform to write their Aramaic.
Once Hebrew evolved into nothing more than an alphabet, then it became detached from its original pictorial concepts. The original "concepts" were then forgotten.

*note the Proto-Hebrew's origins in Phoenician, which later became the basis for the Greek alphabet. So, the changes in Hebrew began early-on.
PS: What do you think the "writing" on the stone tablets, from Sinai, was??

 

[chair]

Like Egyptian hieroglyphics, the origins of Hebrew are Pictographic in nature. The graph is to convey a concept via illustration.

Languages are spoken. Writing is a way of recording a language. Hebrew may have been written in a pictographic way, but it was never "pictographic in nature". Neither was ancient Egyptian, for that matter. Just the writing was pictographic, not the language.

The Semitic Hyksos were invaders and conquerors of Northern Egypt from Mesopotamia. As such, they would have used cuneiform to write their Aramaic.
Once Hebrew evolved into nothing more than an alphabet, then it became detached from its original pictorial concepts. The original "concepts" were then forgotten.

I am aware of the Hyksos, thank you. The Hebrew alphabet evolved over time, but the language itself was never pictographic. Do you think there were only 22 words in Hebrew back then?

*note the Proto-Hebrew's origins in Phoenician, which later became the basis for the Greek alphabet. So, the changes in Hebrew began early-on.
PS: What do you think the "writing" on the stone tablets, from Sinai, was??

The writing was ancient Hebrew writing. Of course. not your made-up symbols, but similar to those actually found by archaeologists.