ECT I see a distinction between initial salvation and the New Birth.

Cross Reference

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In the one, we choose. In the another Jesus Chooses.

To whom is "counting the cost", addressed?

What say you without any accusations thrown in, OK? We don't know it all. Therefore, lets see if we can't participate with the intent of improving our relationship with God that we might makes some strides in His direction, regardless of our religious persuasions, by letting the scriptures say what they say.
 

Cross Reference

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There is no difference between salvation and the new birth.


"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
John 17:3 (ESV)

Do you believe every Christian you know is equipped [or even bother] to understand that verse? Begin with yourself.
 

MAD Max

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"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
John 17:3 (ESV)

Do you believe every Christian you know is equipped [or even bother] to understand that verse? Begin with yourself.
To know (ginōskō) God is to be joined to Him (1 Cor 6:17)

Salvation is the new creation. It is to have received His life by the Spirit that dwells in us. John 6:63

Most Christians do not know or understand this.
 

Word based mystic

New member
from my general studies I understand the difference as.

Being born again allows us to see and enter the Kingdom of God.
Being born again also places a deposit/stamp for resurrection.

Salvation in its fullness brings a time and experience of total elimination of the sinful state in our body. Resurrection being the complete elimination of the struggle of sin in our body. It also signifies the overcoming/victory aspect and timing

Born again is the birth of our spirit man which carries our soul into eternity.
While on the earth before resurrection we work out the rewards of our final salvation.

rewards being crowns as well as growing the spirit senses and muscles of our spirit man, i.e. mustard seed growing in us.

our activation of faith in the obedient working out our salvation develops the character for our rewards/grown muscles/spirit senses for the resurrection.
salvation is the end of sinful influence upon us.

so born again first
growing in rewards and character while still alive.
resurrection which brings about salvation from sin and death.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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There is no such thing as initial salvation. Saved is saved. Salvation is moving from death to life. The resurrection is in fact a different event, that is true.
 

MAD Max

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Banned
from my general studies I understand the difference as.

Being born again allows us to see and enter the Kingdom of God.
Being born again also places a deposit/stamp for resurrection.

Salvation in its fullness brings a time and experience of total elimination of the sinful state in our body. Resurrection being the complete elimination of the struggle of sin in our body. It also signifies the overcoming/victory aspect and timing

Born again is the birth of our spirit man which carries our soul into eternity.
While on the earth before resurrection we work out the rewards of our final salvation.

rewards being crowns as well as growing the spirit senses and muscles of our spirit man, i.e. mustard seed growing in us.

our activation of faith in the obedient working out our salvation develops the character for our rewards/grown muscles/spirit senses for the resurrection.
salvation is the end of sinful influence upon us.

so born again first
growing in rewards and character while still alive.
resurrection which brings about salvation from sin and death.

No such thing as "rewards" in the Bible, and no such thing as "final salvation". Are you from the word of faith cult?
 

Word based mystic

New member
To (know) God is in the same fashion as oneness of a marriage. Intimate/passionate/desperate desire to love and experience oneness in every facet.
This knowing is possible when man becomes born again. His new birthed spirit can commune in that fashion. spirit to Spirit. Becoming one in such a way that His desires is ours and His will is ours. He is our inheritance.
This kind of experience is why my name here is called (word based mystic).
 

MAD Max

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To (know) God is in the same fashion as oneness of a marriage. Intimate/passionate/desperate desire to love and experience oneness in every facet.
This knowing is possible when man becomes born again. His new birthed spirit can commune in that fashion. spirit to Spirit. Becoming one in such a way that His desires is ours and His will is ours. He is our inheritance.
This kind of experience is why my name here is called (word based mystic).
Do you attend IHOP?
 

Word based mystic

New member
rewards

rewards

No such thing as "rewards" in the Bible, and no such thing as "final salvation". Are you from the word of faith cult?

seriously mad max wow you need to study some scriptures.

No word of faith here.
you are quick to sling titles and cult labels.

I will lay out some scriptures for you. Since you seem to be in need of some basics.
 

Word based mystic

New member
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Matthew 5:12

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 25:21

His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

Revelation 22:12

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.

Revelation 2:10

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Luke 12:33-34

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
 

MAD Max

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Banned
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Matthew 5:12

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 25:21

His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

Revelation 22:12

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.

Revelation 2:10

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Luke 12:33-34

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Helpful Not Helpful
2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.

Not one of those verses says anything about "rewards". Better try again. You make the same mistake every uneducated first year Bible student makes. Fact is, you are not qualified to discuss the Bible.
 

Word based mystic

New member
But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

1 Corinthians 2:9

But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—

Revelation 21:4

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

2 Timothy 2:11-12

The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

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1 Corinthians 3:8

He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor.

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

John 14:2

In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

Matthew 6:4

So that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Jeremiah 17:10
“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”
 

MAD Max

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Banned
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
The crown of life is not a "reward". James is not saying that you will get something because of how steadfast you are as a reward. He is just letting the reader know what they have already been promised. It is to encourage them to remain steadfast in the midst of trials.

I will educate you on the others as time permits, but first you must admit your error on this passage.
 
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