ECT Heaven, when do we go there?

iamaberean

New member
The mystery of heaven and when do believers go there?

While Jesus walked the earth, he and John the baptist were telling the Jews the kingdom of God was at hand.

When Jesus told Martha that her brother would rise again.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
When one reads the above they have to believe that at the very time Jesus made the statement, anyone who believed in him would go on to heaven. He was not speaking of our body going to heaven, but rather our spirit. We know his kingdom is spiritual for he said “my kingdom is not of this world”.

Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
We must relate this to the Jews to whom Jesus was speaking. Abraham and then his desendants were the first to believe that there would be a redeemer of their soul and they would be resurrected in the last day. In the above scriptures, Jesus is saying that the last believers would go first and these would be the believers that walked the earth, but died, while Jesus was here.

It appears that the last day and the first resurrection was when Jesus died on the cross.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

From this point on those believers that died went on to be with the Lord Jesus the day of their natural death.

What about Abraham and the other Jews, including Adam and his descendants?
The disciples asked that same question in Mat 24 and Luk 21, and he told them that it would be in their generation and they would know it would come when the temple was destroyed.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

According to scripture then, the last to be ressurection was in 70 AD.

We today, as believers, will go right on to be with the Lord when we pass from this life.

 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
It appears that the last day and the first resurrection was when Jesus died on the cross.

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6 NKJV)​

Where will they reign?

And have made us kings and priests to our God and we shall reign on the earth. (Revelation 5:10 NKJV)​
 

iamaberean

New member
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6 NKJV)​

Where will they reign?

And have made us kings and priests to our God and we shall reign on the earth. (Revelation 5:10 NKJV)​

The judgment in Revelation was ministered by Jesus and the Apostles to those Jews that had died prior to Jesus on the cross. Some to eternal life the others to eternal death.

We, the believers, reign in the spiritual world while we are here. As a child of the king, we are a prince or princes.

To the one thing you didn't ask, the thousand years does not mean a thousand unless you have a qualifier with it. Such as one, two, etc. Otherwise it is an unknown number.

 

iamaberean

New member
Oh right. I think you may have a few who have different views. ��
Hi revpete,

That would be the majority that have different views, but that's ok.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

1. Daniel was told the words were sealed till the time of the end when he would stand with his lot (Jews).

Below I will show the scriptures that relate to the above.

Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Jesus opens the books that were sealed.

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus told his disciples that they would sit on the throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Note: They will not be judging Christians)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God
The ones that were beheaded were the disciples.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Note: The dead were judged according to their works, Old Testament Jews.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Note: These are the unfaithful Jews that are cast into the lake of fire, not Christians.

The book of Revelation is about the opening of the book of Daniel and showing the judgment of the Jews at the time of the end.

According to the word of God and history, that happened in 70 AD.
 

Right Divider

Body part
The idea of a "spiritual only" kingdom is wrong.

[SIZE=+0]John 18:36[/SIZE] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus made it clear that His kingdom will come from heaven to the earth and that He will sit on the throne of David with His twelve apostles also sitting on twelve throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The idea of a "spiritual only" kingdom is wrong.

[SIZE=+0]John 18:36[/SIZE] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus made it clear that His kingdom will come from heaven to the earth and that He will sit on the throne of David with His twelve apostles also sitting on twelve throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

:thumb: Exactly!
 

iamaberean

New member
The idea of a "spiritual only" kingdom is wrong.

[SIZE=+0]John 18:36[/SIZE] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus made it clear that His kingdom will come from heaven to the earth and that He will sit on the throne of David with His twelve apostles also sitting on twelve throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus said "heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool". We Christians today are the temple, footstool, and it is here on earth, but it is still spiritual. When we leave this earth we will go to heaven, or paradise, to be with Jesus.
All of the above are spiritual.

 

Right Divider

Body part
Jesus said "heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool". We Christians today are the temple, footstool, and it is here on earth, but it is still spiritual. When we leave this earth we will go to heaven, or paradise, to be with Jesus.
All of the above are spiritual.

Go read ALL of the promises that God made to Israel and not just the few verses of scripture that you like.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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The mystery of heaven and when do believers go there?

Concerning all who die prior to Christ's return, the Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations: Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Phil. 1:19-26; James 2:26; Rev. 6:9, 20:4). Those who reach Heaven do so based not upon their own good works, but upon the work of Christ in their behalf—His righteous life and atoning death—and upon their God-given faith in Him (Mark 10: 45; John 1:12, 3:16; Rom. 3:21; Eph. 2:8-10).

The saints in Heaven (Abraham’s bosom)—fully aware of their surroundings and delighted by its manifold blessings per their walk of faith (Heb. 12:22-24)—eagerly await their Lord's return at the end of the age, when Our Lord will consummate their redemption by raising them from the dead with new, glorified, resurrection bodies just as He now possesses, and by creating for them a glorious new world in which they will forever live together with Him (Luke 20:27-40, John 5:28, 1 Cor. 15, Phil. 3:20-21; 2 Pet. 3:13).

Those who enter Hades (Sheol in Hebrew) do so based upon their own evil works, especially upon the evil work of suppressing the truth that God made known to them through nature, the Law, and the Gospel, the Gospel being God's only provision for the forgiveness of sin and the acquisition of eternal life (John 3:19,36: John 5:29; Acts 13:46, Rom. 2:8; 2 Thess. 1:8; Rev. 20:12).

In Hades the lost are in the torments of eternal punishment, deprived of God's every life-giving blessing, conscious of God's abiding wrath, and subject to the positive pains of divine retribution all according to their particular sins. Also, to the extent that they may be aware of it, the lost are tormented in this intermediate state of prison by anticipation of the Resurrection and the Day of Judgment, when Christ will send them—body and soul—into Gehenna (Hell), the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 8:29, Mt. 10:28, 25: 41; Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thess. 1:9; Rev. 20:14) where they will remain forever afterwards suffering unending punishment.

AMR
 

revpete

New member
Hi revpete,

That would be the majority that have different views, but that's ok.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

1. Daniel was told the words were sealed till the time of the end when he would stand with his lot (Jews).

Hebrew: גּרל גּורל
Transliteration: gôrâl gôrâl
Pronunciation: {go-rawl'} go-ral'
Definition: From an unused root meaning to be rough (as stone); properly a {pebble} that {is} a lot (small stones being used for that purpose); figuratively a portion or destiny (as if determined by lot)

As you can see the word "lot" on this verse does not mean Jews. Nor in any other verse does "lot" refer to Jews or any other nation.

There are also other errors in your post, ex Peter was crucified upside down (according to tradition) not beheaded. John died of old age. Paul was indeed beheaded but most of the disciples were not.

It's really essential to look at the original language in order to gain a true understanding of the verse and context.

Blessings: Pete 👤
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
In Hades the lost are in the torments of eternal punishment, deprived of God's every life-giving blessing, conscious of God's abiding wrath...

Paul said eternal life is a gift, not something we already have.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:23 NKJV)
 
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OCTOBER23

New member
Mr. Religion said,

Concerning all who die prior to Christ's return, the Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations: Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Phil. 1:19-26; James 2:26; Rev. 6:9, 20:4). Those who reach Heaven do so based not upon their own good works, but upon the work of Christ in their behalf—His righteous life and atoning death—and upon their God-given faith in Him (Mark 10: 45; John 1:12, 3:16; Rom. 3:21; Eph. 2:8-10).
==========================================

No it does NOT go to Hades but it goes straight to Heaven

and is usually stored until it is Resurrected

or given a body as this scripture says.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him.

I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:

worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
The mystery of heaven and when do believers go there?

While Jesus walked the earth, he and John the baptist were telling the Jews the kingdom of God was at hand.

When Jesus told Martha that her brother would rise again.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
When one reads the above they have to believe that at the very time Jesus made the statement, anyone who believed in him would go on to heaven. He was not speaking of our body going to heaven, but rather our spirit. We know his kingdom is spiritual for he said “my kingdom is not of this world”.

Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
We must relate this to the Jews to whom Jesus was speaking. Abraham and then his desendants were the first to believe that there would be a redeemer of their soul and they would be resurrected in the last day. In the above scriptures, Jesus is saying that the last believers would go first and these would be the believers that walked the earth, but died, while Jesus was here.

It appears that the last day and the first resurrection was when Jesus died on the cross.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

From this point on those believers that died went on to be with the Lord Jesus the day of their natural death.

What about Abraham and the other Jews, including Adam and his descendants?
The disciples asked that same question in Mat 24 and Luk 21, and he told them that it would be in their generation and they would know it would come when the temple was destroyed.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

According to scripture then, the last to be ressurection was in 70 AD.

We today, as believers, will go right on to be with the Lord when we pass from this life.


I Thessalonians 4:13-17 if you did Romans 10:9-10
 

iamaberean

New member
Hebrew: גּרל גּורל
Transliteration: gôrâl gôrâl
Pronunciation: {go-rawl'} go-ral'
Definition: From an unused root meaning to be rough (as stone); properly a {pebble} that {is} a lot (small stones being used for that purpose); figuratively a portion or destiny (as if determined by lot)

As you can see the word "lot" on this verse does not mean Jews. Nor in any other verse does "lot" refer to Jews or any other nation.

There are also other errors in your post, ex Peter was crucified upside down (according to tradition) not beheaded. John died of old age. Paul was indeed beheaded but most of the disciples were not.

It's really essential to look at the original language in order to gain a true understanding of the verse and context.

Blessings: Pete 👤
What about these scriptures, revpete,
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus told his disciples that they would sit on the throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Note: They will not be judging Christians)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God
The ones that were beheaded were the disciples. This scripture relates to Mat 19:28

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Note: The dead were judged according to their works, Old Testament Jews.
Christians are not judged by works!


Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Note: These are the unfaithful Jews that are cast into the lake of fire, not Christians, our sins have been washed away by his blood.
 

iamaberean

New member
The saints in Heaven (Abraham’s bosom)—fully aware of their surroundings and delighted by its manifold blessings per their walk of faith (Heb. 12:22-24)—eagerly await their Lord's return at the end of the age, when Our Lord will consummate their redemption by raising them from the dead with new, glorified, resurrection bodies just as He now possesses, and by creating for them a glorious new world in which they will forever live together with Him (Luke 20:27-40, John 5:28, 1 Cor. 15, Phil. 3:20-21; 2 Pet. 3:13).


AMR


There are only two ages written about in the bible. Law and Grace, if we are not living in the age of Grace then Jesus would have been a false Messiah.

The age of Law ended with the death of Jesus, the age of grace is forever! So, because Jesus is the Messiah, the faithful Jews have been resurrected already.

hermeneutics, Old testament written to the Jews, four Gospels written about Jesus coming to his own, the Jews. The rest of the books were written to the early churches, not to us. Go through the epistles and the book of revelation and you will find there are none addressed to us.
 
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