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True. Children's teeth set on edge might be just a result. But Ez 18 associates it with death, and Gen 2 and 3 indicate that death was a punishment. If death is not a punishment, this conversation will change dramatically. True. They are definitely exceptions. That's why some say they are the...

If lived faith trumps the written word, why was the word written in the first place? Not to dog-pile on you, but if the written word isn't trustworthy, any religious system could bring the same stories you've brought and claim their system as truth--something that others need to follow. We...

Yet @Clete himself acknowledged that physical death is a result of Adam's sin. And all human beings, with the exception of Jesus, are either physically dead or will die, even if they never commit a sin (like those who die in the womb). "It is appointed unto man once to die...". You both can...

Who is doing that? I stated what was written in the scripture.

Since @Clete has me in his doghouse for daring to question his theology, this is more just to whoever is interested. I don't think you've made the case that scripture deals with something called spiritual death. I'm ok with the idea, if it means "death that is assured, but not accomplished...

None of that lessens the idea that Abraham questioned God's righteousness and God was OK with it.

So you say, but Adam's sin brought death to all of his descendants. If you prefer to lump that in with "long term ramifications", that's fine, but Adam sinned (the father ate sour grapes) and his children suffered the consequences (their teeth were set on edge).

Yes, that seems like a reasonable possibility, but the point was that the very chapter the text is in refutes the limitation of it being only 24 hours. And I don't know of any other mention in the whole bible that confirms the 24-hour day model for Adam's death. I'm not saying the idea of...

But Ez 18 isn't on its own. It follows, and must be understood in context of the law, which says: [Exo 20:5 KJV] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth...

You just proved my point, It's because He doesn't preordain wickedness that He doesn't preordain every tragedy. If wickedness didn't exist, that wouldn't necessarily negate the potential benefit of tragedy in strengthening and molding God;s people. Look at Job, for instance. Tragedy wasn't due...

I thought the aliens only had 3 fingers and a thumb. 😕

Why do you think Abraham was questioning the righteousness of man in that scripture? Here is the scripture again. Abraham is speaking to God: [Gen 18:25 KJV] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked...

I'm not sure that particular premise is false, but if you include "preordained every sin" it would be.

You didn't really ask me and then respond to where I quoted it, did you? Hmmm, yes you did. Isnt that the only way we can question the righteousness of anyone? My point isn't whether Abraham was correct in what he did, but merely to show that he did exactly what you said nobody does in the...

Perfect housewarming gift!

Abraham, who was called the friend of God, questioned His righteousness. James 2:23 KJV — And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Genesis 18:25 KJV — That be far from thee to do after...

Just beware, Clete: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ai-spiritual-delusions-destroying-human-relationships-1235330175/

Sounds like you align significantly with Open Theism. I think forum rules prohibit linking to other sites like that.

I think you're correct. Yes, we both agree that we have, if we believe that He died and rose again. There are a bunch of side points that go along with that, but that is the basis for the gospel. We might disagree here, but not in much substance. I appreciate that you relooked at it. I would...

Neither of those are definitions. The whole idea that people that are "in Adam" receive the wages of sin is a concept that needs to be wrestled with. The Levites paid tithe to Melchizedek while they were "in Abraham": Hebrews 7:9-10 KJV — And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes...