Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

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marke

Well-known member
Clete said:
Yes, by all means, let's slow down the ending of this pandemic because we're way more scared of the treatment than we are the disease!
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Cuomo sent covid patients into rest homes in a panic. We don't need to try to solve problems in a haste driven by fears. The coronavirus caused increasing deaths around the world in spite of every measure taken until covid deaths began to subside in spite of measures taken.

If a virology expert expresses alarming concerns about the new relatively unknown and untested covid vaccines then I think it would be wise to hear what he has to say.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
marke said:
Cuomo sent covid patients into rest homes in a panic. We don't need to try to solve problems in a haste driven by fears. The coronavirus caused increasing deaths around the world in spite of every measure taken until covid deaths began to subside in spite of measures taken.

If a virology expert expresses alarming concerns about the new relatively unknown and untested covid vaccines then I think it would be wise to hear what he has to say.
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The truth is that he's tickling your ears and feeding your irrational fear of a treatment that had exactly the same amount of testing that any new drug ever gets and has since seen HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of doses administered with NO statistically significant deleterious effects and has been 100% effective at preventing cases of COVID19 severe enough to require hospitalization.

Clete
 
M

marke

Well-known member
Clete said:
The truth is that he's tickling your ears and feeding your irrational fear of a treatment that had exactly the same amount of testing that any new drug ever gets and has since seen HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of doses administered with NO statistically significant deleterious effects and has been 100% effective at preventing cases of COVID19 severe enough to require hospitalization.

Clete
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I don't trust the new mRNA technology. I am not afraid of it but I am definitely opposed to stem cell research using aborted baby tissues. You can take it or leave it if you don't understand one reason I am opposed to vaccines that were developed using stem cell research.
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Clete said:
Stupidity

There are good reasons to not get the vaccine.
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it's experimental
Clete said:
Nothing you've said in this entire thread is one of them aside from the single fact that you've had the disease and if you had it more than six months ago, even that isn't a good one.
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who gets sick from the flu & it kicks their butt
and then after they get over it a week later gets the flu shot ?
no one , ever


Many people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 will probably make antibodies against the virus for most of their lives.
So suggest researchers who have identified long-lived antibody-producing cells in the bone marrow of people who have recovered from COVID-191.
But these cells recede soon after a virus is cleared from the body, and other, longer-lasting cells make antibodies: memory B cells patrol the blood for reinfection, while bone marrow plasma cells (BMPCs) hide away in bones, trickling out antibodies for decades.
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
expos4ever said:
I do not follow the reasoning here. A chart that shows that mask and unmasked populations are affected similarly shows nothing unless everything else is equal. People on this site have repeatedly attempted to distort by posting charts like this - they show a chart that shows that infections stayed the same, or even went up, after mask-wearing was initiated.
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why didn't medical masks work in Chile ?

Screenshot_2021-06-14 IM ( ianmSC) Twitter.png
expos4ever said:
This is an attempt to dupe the unsophisticated reader who does not understand that all sorts of other factors can cause infections to increase even if masks are acting to lessen the degree of increase.
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confession through projection







cloth masks don't work 3% effective , virus goes right through them .
medical mask 56% effective , which is ineffective when used by the general population


A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers | BMJ Open

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.
Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.
 
Yorzhik

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Clete said:
I don't recall any studies that said that masks work. They do not exist on the CDC's website anywhere that I can find.
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I'm not sure they had one and pulled it or not. I do remember Gov. Whitmer bringing up some paper or science demonstration somewhere upon which she gave her executive order to mask up. Same with social distancing and lockdowns.

Although, this CDC pdf seems to infer that masks are scientifically proven to help: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/science-of-masking-full.pdf

Clete said:
Again, I can find no such actual study. The press lies.


I completely agree that you cannot trust what you read in press releases! Until you find and read the actual study, it's good to assume you're being lied to.
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Sure, but policy is supported by the press, not the actual science.

Clete said:
I'll try to find it this weekend. This is the busy part of the year for my work and I'm working on starting my own business so I've been busier than a farmer with one hoe and two rattlesnakes.
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Busy is better than not working at all. 👍
 
Yorzhik

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Clete said:
Yes, by all means, let's slow down the ending of this pandemic because we're way more scared of the treatment than we are the disease!
Click to expand...
Like all pandemics, this one was over after its first season mostly. At least the great excesses of death it brought. Now it's relegated to being more like a bad flu season, and next season it will be even weaker. Even the variants won't be as deadly (I'm talking about only the disease, not the death by the reaction to the disease).
 
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way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Yorzhik said:
Like all pandemics, this one was over after its first season mostly. At least the great excesses of death it brought. Now it's relegated to being more like a bad flu season, and next season it will be even weaker. Even the variants won't be as deadly (I'm talking about only the disease, not the death by the reaction to the disease).
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no emergency ,no emergency use.
Screenshot_2021-05-24 Traditional Canadian Girl 🇨🇦 ( canadiangirls99) Twitter.png
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
marke said:
I don't trust the new mRNA technology. I am not afraid of it but I am definitely opposed to stem cell research using aborted baby tissues. You can take it or leave it if you don't understand one reason I am opposed to vaccines that were developed using stem cell research.
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It's more than that. You will not allow ANY argument from ANY angle, to persuade you in any manner or to any degree, no matter how compelling the argument. You've done it again with this three sentence post! There hasn't been any stem cell research associated with the significantly more effective and less problematic vaccines and you can learn all you want about mRNA technology that you want with things that have been published BEFORE the vaccines came out. They've been working on mRNA vaccines since the 1990s. If it were a treatment for cystic fibrosis or cancer you'd have no problem with it whatsoever. But you don't care about any of that. You don't want to know and refuse to learn.

You don't get to get to ignore every piece of information except those that feed into your hysteria and pretend to be reasonable.
 
E

expos4ever

Well-known member
way 2 go said:
why didn't medical masks work in Chile ?
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Again, as you have been repeatedly told, there are many variables other than masks that contribute to covid levels. So unless your analysis accounts for these other factors, the chart proves nothing.

You know this - it is not plausible that you lack the cognitive capabilities to recognize this.

So what is the only conclusion: you are intentionally spreading falsehoods. And this is not news - it is the only tool available to you to promote your position.
 
E

expos4ever

Well-known member
Yorzhik said:
Like all pandemics, this one was over after its first season mostly. At least the great excesses of death it brought. Now it's relegated to being more like a bad flu season, and next season it will be even weaker. Even the variants won't be as deadly (I'm talking about only the disease, not the death by the reaction to the disease).
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"I am talking only about the disease, not the death by reaction to the disease".

This sounds very much like the misleading argument that only 6 % of covid deaths are attributable to the virus, the other 94% are attributable to other conditions (diabetes, asthma, heart disease, etc.).

Whether you die "directly" from covid, or whether the virus "combines" with other diseases to kill you, you are still dead. The important point is that had you not contracted covid, you would not have died from these other diseases (at least not nearly as soon).

And it would be nice to have some credible evidence for these other claims of yours.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
way 2 go said:
it's experimental
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Not any more it isn't.

It has gone the EXACT SAME TESTING that any other drug that has ever been given emergency use authorization (EUA). In fact, the EUA standards where heightened for approval of the COVID 19 vaccines.

way 2 go said:
who gets sick from the flu & it kicks their butt
and then after they get over it a week later gets the flu shot ?
no one , ever
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The science suggests that doing so for COVID 19 would yield no benefit.

The problem is that people who had it a year ago are taking this science as an excuse for them not to get the vaccine either. Dumb!

Further, hospitals across the country were / are being given money for every COVID case that walks through the door. That along with a political desire to make the pandemic look as bad as possible people who were NOT symptomatic were counted as cases of COVID and PCR testing procedures were manipulated to show greater positivity rates. In short, just because you've been told you had COVID doesn't mean you actually did and if you weren't symptomatic then even if you have been exposed to the virus, your immunity to it is at best unknown.

way 2 go said:
Many people who have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 will probably make antibodies against the virus for most of their lives.
So suggest researchers who have identified long-lived antibody-producing cells in the bone marrow of people who have recovered from COVID-191.
But these cells recede soon after a virus is cleared from the body, and other, longer-lasting cells make antibodies: memory B cells patrol the blood for reinfection, while bone marrow plasma cells (BMPCs) hide away in bones, trickling out antibodies for decades.
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That's cool but getting the virus comes with a significant risk of a miserable death (not to mention the risk of spreading the disease to others) and the study you cite says that you get the same benefit from the vaccine which has no such risk. Not only that but we can distribute the vaccine much more quickly that the disease can spread, thereby ending this pandemic far more quickly.

Clete
 
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