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  • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
    Your belief in the bible as God's infallible, inerrant word, is speculative at best. You need to receive a divine deposit of knowledge for the bible to be profitable to you for instruction or it will kill you. The bible will literally kill you. It's a two edged sword. Without the Holy Spirit, you will only increase your wickedness, if you study the bible.
    Made up. There is more evidence of the facts of the bible, than that Julius Caesar existed.


    Prove wind exists.
    Saint John W

    Comment


    • Originally posted by john w View Post
      Prove you exist.

      Prove George Washington existed.
      Exactly, you just proved my point. I can't absolutely prove to you that I exist, but it's quite reasonable to assume I do, don't you think?

      Why do you believe the bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God? How is that a reasonable assumption?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
        The prerequisite for anyone to be saved from destruction, is Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection. It doesn't matter how good you are, if Christ hadn't died on that cross and risen from the dead, we would all be doomed to destruction, due to the original sin. The first Adam's fall, effected everyone, whether good or not, saint and sinner, all died and perished, without recourse of a resurrection.

        Now we're living in the age after Christ's resurrection, hence all people on earth, every human being, will be risen from the dead and judged. Saint and sinner, unlike before, now have an opportunity to inherit eternal life, in God's Kingdom. So, you and I will be judged according to our deeds. That's the standard established by Christ, the judge appointed by the heavenly Father. The infinite, eternal, Creator, YHWH, has appointed His Son, as King, Judge and High priest. Our deeds, the way we live, will determine our eternal destiny.

        If you are of the elect, born again/born from above, you will reign with Christ over the nations. You're a member of His royal family. You won't suffer the torment of the first death. You won't go to the abyss as most of humanity does. You will enter God's Kingdom, at the point of death, into a realm where you will wait for the resurrection. It's a pleasant rest and dream like environment. You won't be tormented by demons in the abyss. If you're not a Christian, born again, regenerated, then you will go to the dark abyss, where you might be summoned by demons, tormented. You will mostly sleep and also experience a nightmarish condition, when you are semi-awake.

        The demons and the living (human beings when alive, like necromancers, magicians), have the power to summon the human dead. The witch of Endor, summoned Samuel from his sleep or rest. He was a righteous prophet, but he was in the abyss. He was protected somewhat, but still vulnerable to being summoned. This ends with Christ. If you're in Christ, you don't have to worry about that.

        Everyone who is in the abyss, will not be thrown into the lake of fire. Only the wicked, those who were extremely evil, here on earth when alive, and those who might not have been so evil, but once summoned in the abyss they chose to serve the demonic forces, authorities that summoned them. To remain conscious, they do the bidding of the devil and his minions, becoming a demonic minion themselves.

        Those who get to the resurrection, without serving the devil, who died in this life, as relatively good people, and didn't serve the devil when in the abyss, will become part of the nations that are shepherd by the elect. The bride of Christ. Those who are part of Christ's royal family, His bride, will become angels. Like the angels/essentially. True Christians will become like Jesus and His angels. We will serve as ministering spirits. No flesh and blood will inherit the Kingdom Of God (We get resurrection bodies, unlike the nations). The nations will have access to the tree of life (what exactly that entrails is a mystery) and humanity will spread throughout the universe, as originally intended by YHWH.

        And like I just mentioned, the true Christians or elect, the Bride of Christ, will be the angels of that Aeon/Age. Eventually, many of the people of the nations will eventually inherit the same nature as the elect, becoming angels themselves. That is the eternal destiny of the living ones. YHWH is the Living God of the Living, not the dead. It's an eternal journey, form holiness to holiness, glory to glory, power to power, ascending, closer and closer to the Heavenly Father's Infinite Light.
        Source?
        Saint John W

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
          Exactly, you just proved my point. I can't absolutely prove to you that I exist, but it's quite reasonable to assume I do, don't you think?

          Why do you believe the bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God? How is that a reasonable assumption?
          So, you cannot offer evidence, "proof," that you/Washington exists/existed?
          Saint John W

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post

            Your belief in the bible as God's infallible, inerrant word, is speculative at best. You need to receive a divine deposit of knowledge for the bible to be profitable to you for instruction or it will kill you. The bible will literally kill you. It's a two edged sword. Without the Holy Spirit, you will only increase your wickedness, if you study the bible.
            make sense and insightful.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by john w View Post
              Made up. There is more evidence of the facts of the bible, than that Julius Caesar existed.


              Prove wind exists.
              What "facts" are you referring to? What evidence "proves" the "facts" of the bible? It's not that difficult to reasonable assume that Julius Caesar existed. Many heads of states, kings, emperors have existed in the past and it's not an extraordinary proposition. A man lived thousands of years ago who was emperor of an empire. Yeah? Big deal. If you tell me Caesar had a pet dragon and shot lasers out of his eyes, that's unreasonable, unless you have some really really good evidence.

              What evidence do you have for your bible?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                What "facts" are you referring to? What evidence "proves" the "facts" of the bible? It's not that difficult to reasonable assume that Julius Caesar existed.
                Scientific evidence-empirical-"taste, sight, touch, smell, and hearing."

                Have you ever seen, touched, smelled,tasted, heard Caesar?


                How do you know he existed? Offer evidence.

                Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                Many heads of states, kings, emperors have existed in the past and it's not an extraordinary proposition.
                So? How is that evidence of the existence of a specific person, named "Julius Caesar?" Because you deem it :reasonable"-below?"

                Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                A man lived thousands of years ago who was emperor of an empire. Yeah? Big deal. If you tell me Caesar had a pet dragon and shot lasers out of his eyes, that's unreasonable, unless you have some really really good evidence.
                So, Lamont, your "evidence, is that "it seems reasonable?" Really? That's it, Lamont? Reasonable tou you, eh, Lamont?
                Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                What evidence do you have for your bible?
                Seems reasonable.


                See how that works, Lamont? You taught me that-I learned that from you.
                Last edited by john w; December 6th, 2017, 05:16 PM.
                Saint John W

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                  The prerequisite for anyone to be saved from destruction, is Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection. It doesn't matter how good you are, if Christ hadn't died on that cross and risen from the dead, we would all be doomed to destruction, due to the original sin. The first Adam's fall, effected everyone, whether good or not, saint and sinner, all died and perished, without recourse of a resurrection.

                  Now we're living in the age after Christ's resurrection, hence all people on earth, every human being, will be risen from the dead and judged. Saint and sinner, unlike before, now have an opportunity to inherit eternal life, in God's Kingdom. So, you and I will be judged according to our deeds. That's the standard established by Christ, the judge appointed by the heavenly Father. The infinite, eternal, Creator, YHWH, has appointed His Son, as King, Judge and High priest. Our deeds, the way we live, will determine our eternal destiny.

                  If you are of the elect, born again/born from above, you will reign with Christ over the nations. You're a member of His royal family. You won't suffer the torment of the first death. You won't go to the abyss as most of humanity does. You will enter God's Kingdom, at the point of death, into a realm where you will wait for the resurrection. It's a pleasant rest and dream like environment. You won't be tormented by demons in the abyss. If you're not a Christian, born again, regenerated, then you will go to the dark abyss, where you might be summoned by demons, tormented. You will mostly sleep and also experience a nightmarish condition, when you are semi-awake.

                  The demons and the living (human beings when alive, like necromancers, magicians), have the power to summon the human dead. The witch of Endor, summoned Samuel from his sleep or rest. He was a righteous prophet, but he was in the abyss. He was protected somewhat, but still vulnerable to being summoned. This ends with Christ. If you're in Christ, you don't have to worry about that.

                  Everyone who is in the abyss, will not be thrown into the lake of fire. Only the wicked, those who were extremely evil, here on earth when alive, and those who might not have been so evil, but once summoned in the abyss they chose to serve the demonic forces, authorities that summoned them. To remain conscious, they do the bidding of the devil and his minions, becoming a demonic minion themselves.

                  Those who get to the resurrection, without serving the devil, who died in this life, as relatively good people, and didn't serve the devil when in the abyss, will become part of the nations that are shepherd by the elect. The bride of Christ. Those who are part of Christ's royal family, His bride, will become angels. Like the angels/essentially. True Christians will become like Jesus and His angels. We will serve as ministering spirits. No flesh and blood will inherit the Kingdom Of God (We get resurrection bodies, unlike the nations). The nations will have access to the tree of life (what exactly that entrails is a mystery) and humanity will spread throughout the universe, as originally intended by YHWH.

                  And like I just mentioned, the true Christians or elect, the Bride of Christ, will be the angels of that Aeon/Age. Eventually, many of the people of the nations will eventually inherit the same nature as the elect, becoming angels themselves. That is the eternal destiny of the living ones. YHWH is the Living God of the Living, not the dead. It's an eternal journey, form holiness to holiness, glory to glory, power to power, ascending, closer and closer to the Heavenly Father's Infinite Light.

                  You quote the bible, allegedly, and ask:


                  Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                  What evidence do you have for your bible?

                  Really, Lamont?

                  Translation: Here is the bible, which I, Lamont, doubt, assert has errors, and yet I will quote it, as part of my premise("reasons for a conclusion").
                  Saint John W

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by john w View Post
                    Source?
                    Both the bible and the Holy Spirit.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by john w View Post
                      You quote the bible, allegedly, and ask:





                      Really, Lamont?

                      Translation: Here is the bible, which I, Lamont, doubt, assert has errors, and yet I will quote it, as part of my premise("reasons for a conclusion").
                      Yes, the bible contains God's word and much truth. It's a holy book for the children of God, and a stumbling block and source of condemnation for the wicked.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                        Your belief in the bible as God's infallible, inerrant word, is speculative at best. You need to receive a divine deposit of knowledge for the bible to be profitable to you for instruction or it will kill you. The bible will literally kill you. It's a two edged sword. Without the Holy Spirit, you will only increase your wickedness, if you study the bible.
                        Lamont, you would have no objective knowledge, about the true LORD God of the universe, w/o the book, of objective, true words, the book by which He choose to reveal Himself to mankind, the book by which He deemed we objectively know Him. What? This YHWH tapped you on the shoulder, came to you in a dream ,through His Spirit? You confuse objective truth, through objective words, with interpretation/understanding/illumination, via the Holy Spirit of God.


                        A Muslim to you: Allah is God. My Koran, and the Holy Spirit, confirmed it.


                        You: Right on, "brother!"
                        Saint John W

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by john w View Post
                          Scientific evidence-empirical-"taste, sight, touch, smell, and hearing."

                          Have you ever seen, touched, smelled,tasted, heard Caesar?


                          How do you know he existed? Offer evidence.



                          So? How is that evidence of the existence of a specific person, named "Julius Caesar?" Because you deem it :reasonable"-below?"



                          So, Lamont, your "evidence, is that "it seems reasonable?" Really? That's it, Lamont? Reasonable tou you, eh, Lamont?


                          Seems reasonable.


                          See how that works, Lamont? You taught me that-I learned that from you.
                          I already answered the question why I believe an emperor named Caesar existing 2000 years ago is reasonable. Based on the facts of the human condition, reality, the fact we have written evidence, archaeological evidence, that a man named Caesar lived 2000 years ago who was emperor of an empire. Big deal. Nothing extraordinary about that. It doesn't take much to make that claim reasonable, not as much as it takes to make the belief in Yeshua reasonable, or that a book written by men is the infallible word of almighty God. That would take a lot more evidence, than what is required to reasonably establish mundane, historical realities.

                          You're now entering into the world of metaphysics. Spirituality. Subjectivity. That's the realm of religion and spirituality. You claim that a book is the infallible word of God, and that your interpretation of that infallible word is itself infallible and correct, prove it. How would you do that?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                            Yes, the bible contains God's word and much truth. It's a holy book for the children of God, and a stumbling block and source of condemnation for the wicked.
                            Contains? Made up. The bible claims to be the word of God, claims to be the true, and yet you quote a error laden book, according to you, as part of your "argument?" Really, Lamont?

                            Contains? So does the Koran, so does a secular book, so does a car manual, so does a Domino's menu. A trash bin may contain food, or a diamond ring, but that does not make it a restaurant, jewelry store.
                            Saint John W

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                              I already answered the question why I believe an emperor named Caesar existing 2000 years ago is reasonable. Based on the facts of the human condition, reality, the fact we have written evidence, archaeological evidence, that a man named Caesar lived 2000 years ago who was emperor of an empire. Big deal. Nothing extraordinary about that. It doesn't take much to make that claim reasonable, not as much as it takes to make the belief in Yeshua reasonable, or that a book written by men is the infallible word of almighty God. That would take a lot more evidence, than what is required to reasonably establish mundane, historical realities.

                              You're now entering into the world of metaphysics. Spirituality. Subjectivity. That's the realm of religion and spirituality. You claim that a book is the infallible word of God, and that your interpretation of that infallible word is itself infallible and correct, prove it. How would you do that?
                              Non responsive, evasion.


                              I stay on topic:


                              Scientific evidence-empirical-"taste, sight, touch, smell, and hearing."

                              Have you ever seen, touched, smelled,tasted, heard Caesar?



                              How do you know he existed? Offer evidence.



                              So? How is that evidence of the existence of a specific person, named "Julius Caesar?" Because you deem it "reasonable"-below?"



                              So, Lamont, your "evidence, is that "it seems reasonable?" Really? That's it, Lamont? Reasonable tou you, eh, Lamont?
                              Saint John W

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by john w View Post
                                Contains? Made up. The bible claims to be the word of God, claims to be the true, and yet you quote a error laden book, according to you, as part of your "argument?" Really, Lamont?

                                Contains? So does the Koran, so does a secular book, so does a car manual, so does a Domino's menu. A trash bin may contain food, or a diamond ring, but that does not make it a restaurant, jewelry store.
                                The bible is a collection of ancient writings. The protestant canon or bible differs from the Catholic and some Eastern Orthodox bibles. So to say "bible", begs the question..Which one are you referring to? You need a relationship with God, in order for the bible to be of any benefit to you. You need to be born again. Born from above.

                                Comment

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